SDRs or Formels?

[ArthurS]

I have yet to decide it I will get those springs. I am pretty sure I will, but they are ORANGE .....But I guess that doesn't matter to much.

I am getting these things from SubyDude:

*Either of these rims haven't fully decdied:
Rota SDR's Silver 17x7.5
Rota Formels Royal 17x7.5
*Tanabe GF Springs (Possibly)
*Sti High-pressure cap (Everyone sells um, I decided to get one)
*Sti Blank key
*Chrome Spline lug nuts w/key

That will be enough for one purchase.

[sperry]

Hey post some pics of those rims... I don't remember the Formels. I do now the SDRs are hot tho...

[ArthurS]

Yea the SDR's are pretty cool. I am really torn between the two. They are both good deals also.

Here is the link to the Formels:


http://www.rotawheels.com/formel.htm

[sperry]

Ahh... now I see why you're torn... those Formels are super nice too... very classy...

hehe, I think it's quarter flipping time...

[ArthurS]

Pretty much. The Formels are about 25$ cheaper per wheel, so 100$ total. Thats why I am leaning towards them. Either way, I will have a set by the end of the month. They won't have tires on them, but Ill have them.

Where is Tirerack located? I have to swing by there once I get the rims to have them put on Kuhmo's and install the springs....(unless you per chance know how to install springs )

[sperry]

Originally Posted by ArthurS

Pretty much. The Formels are about 25$ cheaper per wheel, so 100$ total. Thats why I am leaning towards them. Either way, I will have a set by the end of the month. They won't have tires on them, but Ill have them.

Where is Tirerack located? I have to swing by there once I get the rims to have them put on Kuhmo's and install the springs....(unless you per chance know how to install springs )

Tirerack is located almost across the street from Summitt out in Sparks. I'm not sure they do tire installs unless you're buying a rim/tire package from them.. you might wanna call and ask. The place is just a warehouse really, not much of a customer service area.

I've done some spring installs on Austin's mustang with him before. It was a bit of a PITA, but the WRX should be easier. All you gotta do is rent a spring compressor, and then go to town on it... put the car on jackstands, compress the stock spring, unbolt the strut, take the strut off, then reinstall with the new spring... but having never done it, I'm not sure how hard it'll be.

I'm planning on (someday...) getting some take-off STi struts and springs... since they came off a car, they're ready to just bolt on, top hats and all. But that's like 3 times the cost of springs alone.

[ArthurS]

True they may not do the install. I will call them. If not I might see if my friend at Good Year can hook me up and install them.

I read a Review over Nasioc about those Kuhmo's Escta MX's and most people said they wern't worth the money and just just the 712's (?) or whatever the other ones are.

Since this will be my first auto-x season, I should probably go with some cheaper tires anyway.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

I've done some spring installs on Austin's mustang with him before. It was a bit of a PITA, but the WRX should be easier. All you gotta do is rent a spring compressor, and then go to town on it... put the car on jackstands, compress the stock spring, unbolt the strut, take the strut off, then reinstall with the new spring... but having never done it, I'm not sure how hard it'll be.

Actually since I've learned more about my suspension and watched Mike Maier work on the car, you can take out the springs on my car without a spring compressor... you have to disconnect the swaybars and things from the control arms, but basically once you have the chassis on jackstands you can put a jack under the control arm and slowly lower it down until the spring is totally unloaded. Then you just work it out of the seat with your hands. He can take one out in like 10 minutes, as opposed to the whole weekend we spent doing it down in San Luis.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Actually since I've learned more about my suspension and watched Mike Maier work on the car, you can take out the springs on my car without a spring compressor... you have to disconnect the swaybars and things from the control arms, but basically once you have the chassis on jackstands you can put a jack under the control arm and slowly lower it down until the spring is totally unloaded. Then you just work it out of the seat with your hands. He can take one out in like 10 minutes, as opposed to the whole weekend we spent doing it down in San Luis.

On a WRX, the spring is not compressed by the control arm.. it's compressed by the strut... The whole strut/spring assembly can come out of the car, still compressed. You could try to take off the top hat w/o compressing the spring, but when that last bolt comes off, the top hat'll prolly take your head off... BOINOINOINOING!! Also, you'll never get a new spring on w/o compressing it IIRC.

[sperry]

Hey Art... here's a good pic of the SDRs on a Black Wagon:



Looks pretty sick!! But I'm still torn about the formels... they would rock too. I think you're in a win-win situation!

[ArthurS]

Yea its driving me nuts too. All my friends are seperated on the issue also.

I am leaning a little towards the Formels still, but keep looking at the SDR's. GOD.......I should just buy them both

NExt question: I don't want the brake calipers I have on now to look like crap once I get the 17's. So its either I replace them with aftermarket ones (blue preferably) or paint them. http://www.fastwrx.com/brakcalpaink.html. Do you know of any companies that produce GOOD blue or red brake calipers?

I did want to buy a big break kit eventually, but those are so damn expensive. So I will just get the parts one by one.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by ArthurS

Yea its driving me nuts too. All my friends are seperated on the issue also.

I am leaning a little towards the Formels still, but keep looking at the SDR's. GOD.......I should just buy them both

NExt question: I don't want the brake calipers I have on now to look like crap once I get the 17's. So its either I replace them with aftermarket ones (blue preferably) or paint them. http://www.fastwrx.com/brakcalpaink.html. Do you know of any companies that produce GOOD blue or red brake calipers?

I did want to buy a big break kit eventually, but those are so damn expensive. So I will just get the parts one by one.

The color of the brake pads doesn't matter, since you can't really see them under the calipers. Any hi-temp (like the 900 deg stuff you linked to) paint should work for brake calipers, but you have to be careful painting them, so you get he paint only where is should go.

BTW: do you have weight info on the SDRs vs the Formels?

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by ArthurS

NExt question: I don't want the brake calipers I have on now to look like crap once I get the 17's. So its either I replace them with aftermarket ones (blue preferably) or paint them. http://www.fastwrx.com/brakcalpaink.html. Do you know of any companies that produce GOOD blue or red brake calipers?

Just worry about the quality of the calipers and how they'll fit into the brake system you eventually want to build... brake components have to be fairly carefully matched to one another or it'll throw the overall system out of whack and you won't have good brake performance or feel. The best performing (read: expensive) brakes are usually whole kits for good reason.. if the company is worth anything, like Baer, Brembo, etc.., then they've matched all the components together and tested it as a complete system. Plus, you want to make sure if you get new calipers that they can accomodate bigger rotors if you want to do that down the road. So just worry about how it'll work, not about how it looks... if it doesn't make the car go (or stop) faster, it's not really worth getting anyway. :wink:

[sperry]

Lots of good points...

Unless you're gonna track the car, the WRX brakes are very good, and cen be made virtually fade-free w/ the right bits.

- Pads: I'm using Axxis Ultimates. They rock!
- Lines: Stainless Steel = less pedal mush, I got Goodridges.
- Fluid: Motul 600 gets high praise, but I haven't tried it... I'm running Ford 550F fluid... it's really affordable, and seems to work pretty good.

My setup does pretty well. I've worn the hell outta my pads and my rotors are half gone since autocrossing on the stock pads grooved them to hell, and they had to be resurfaced to just above the min width. I've got a set of StopTech slotted rotors in the stock size waiting to go on the front come spring.

Read some of Gary Sheenan's posts on NASIOC. That guy runs the USTCC WRX. He's found that the above setup (pads, lines, fluid) is even good enuf for occational track use!

When you start going to big brake kits, you have to make sure they're matched to the car. Some people get giant Brembos on the front and back and they can't out brake a stock WRX cuz the front's were designed to work with the stock WRX rears.

The StopTech and Subaru FHI front kits are supposed to work well with the stock rears and master cylinder, but they're like $1000.

[ArthurS]

Hey,

I guess I might actually just look into some colored calipers. I have seen some people with some nice black ones..WILWOOD or some other brand.

ROTA SDR's and FORMELS are both 16.3 lbs. At least I know how much the SDR's weigh, not sure about the formels...but ROTA seems to keep the weight consistant.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

- Fluid: Motul 600 gets high praise, but I haven't tried it... I'm running Ford 550F fluid... it's really affordable, and seems to work pretty good.

One thing to note: The Motul is supposed to be great, but I believe it is a racing fluid, and in general with Motul or Castrol, etc. racing brake fluids they absorb moisture from any air they come into contact with very quickly. This tends to mean that you'll have to bleed the brakes fairly often to get rid of a spongy brake pedal.. so unless you want to be doing that every week or two it's probably not adviseable for your street car.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by ArthurS

Hey,

I guess I might actually just look into some colored calipers. I have seen some people with some nice black ones..WILWOOD or some other brand.

ROTA SDR's and FORMELS are both 16.3 lbs. At least I know how much the SDR's weigh, not sure about the formels...but ROTA seems to keep the weight consistant.

Don't just buy calipers! (read LabMonkey's post... he's the Mechanical Engineer) Buy a whole kit, if you're gonna go bigger. Otherwise, painting the stock calipers is no big deal, and looks good too. Just getting calipers not specifically designed for the stock rotors/master cylinder/etc would prolly cost like $600, and make the braking worse. The $40 can of paint's a much better deal.

I know that Rota rims vary in weight quite a bit. 17" Attacks are about 15lbs, 18" SubZeros are about 16lbs, SDRs are 16.3 as you say, but I've seen the 16" Formel listed at 17.7lbs!!

http://www.wheelspecs.com/specs/wheelmodels/344

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

One thing to note: The Motul is supposed to be great, but I believe it is a racing fluid, and in general with Motul or Castrol, etc. racing brake fluids they absorb moisture from any air they come into contact with very quickly. This tends to mean that you'll have to bleed the brakes fairly often to get rid of a spongy brake pedal.. so unless you want to be doing that every week or two it's probably not adviseable for your street car.

That's just the thing.. lots of street bike guys, and I-Club dudes run Motul, and say it's great, and doesn't absorb water too bad... Which is why it's so bank: racing performance, street maintence... but never having ponied up and tried it, that's all heresay.

[ArthurS]

Your right. And the 17.7lbs is for the 16" rim and no the 17" Formel. That means the 17" is even heavier. I am probably going to go SDR now, plus I can get those through subydude now. The formels I would have to get from somewhere else. (he doesn't stock them).

As for the big break kit issue, if I get a big-break kit, then I can't use 16" wheels with it. I plan on using the stock rims during winter. So if I were to do that, then I would have to replace the whole big break assembly in the winter?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by ArthurS

Your right. And the 17.7lbs is for the 16" rim and no the 17" Formel. That means the 17" is even heavier. I am probably going to go SDR now, plus I can get those through subydude now. The formels I would have to get from somewhere else. (he doesn't stock them).

As for the big break kit issue, if I get a big-break kit, then I can't use 16" wheels with it. I plan on using the stock rims during winter. So if I were to do that, then I would have to replace the whole big break assembly in the winter?

Some 16" rims fit over big brake kits... but not the stockers. It would be easier to drop the money on 17" winter rims... some Rota Tarmacs or something than to swap brakes twice a year... At least to me, $500 is worth not having to take off my brakes. 'Course, I'm plenty happy with the stock sized brakes, and that includes autocrossing!

[ArthurS]

I think if I just paint the caipers, then I can hold myself over. Brakes seem like a big investment, when they are already pretty good. I would rather put it into vishnu.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by ArthurS

I think if I just paint the caipers, then I can hold myself over. Brakes seem like a big investment, when they are already pretty good. I would rather put it into vishnu.

Yeah, that's prolly the best plan. I even think the calipers aren't that bad stock... kinda gold-ish.

(BTW: good to see doink's server is back up... It wasn't my fault!!)

[ArthurS]

SSsssuuuuuurrreee it wasn't.

Well my calipers are actually kinda green/puke color, since I cleaned my wheel about a month ago with some of that foam wheel stuff and it got on the caliper. It then must have dyed it or something, but its a odd color now.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by ArthurS

SSsssuuuuuurrreee it wasn't.

Well my calipers are actually kinda green/puke color, since I cleaned my wheel about a month ago with some of that foam wheel stuff and it got on the caliper. It then must have dyed it or something, but its a odd color now.

Freaky... copper oxidation? Austin, drop some materials knowledge!

[ArthurS]

Hey,

Here is a link to a bunch of pics with the ROTA Formels on a WRB sedan.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hlight=formels

THEY ALSO COME IN GOLD!!!!!!!!