2 questions: alignment shop rec's, spring compressor rec's.

[left footed whooten]

Finally got my Dspecs to go with my RCE wagon springs after 2 years. Gonna install them with GrN tophats and camber bolts on my 06 wagon.

My questions:

1. Sid's was recommended to me for alignments in the past, theyve done 2 good ones for me but never to any specs or a 'performance' alignment. Are they good for that? What exactly to ask for or should I just provide them with specs?
**what I'm looking to do is fit my 16x8's e48 with 225's (RE-01-R) in there. Rear fenders rolled a bit, planning on camber bolts to help take up the rest. I dont have any autox or tuning needs per se, but I need the tires to clear and to align it so it will not tramline and will perform better.

2. Cant seem to find a proper spring compressor around, I used to rent the one from Napa on N Virginia, but theyre gone, other napas seem to have no knowledge of this thin-bladed compressor. Anyone got any suggestions? The RCE springs are progressive wound so theyre tighter on coil spacing and I would like to not scratch them up.

3. Who to recommend to assemble my struts if I cant find the compressor myself? I was thinking Cory, though we've never met, I'm sure he has access to a more proper spring compressor. All the parts houses and tool shops really dont offer anything that looks like it will work.

Input is appreciated.

[left footed whooten]

Oh yeah,

4. Do you all think one set of camber bolts is enough to gain neg camber for rear tire clearance, or do I need 2 pairs? Again, I dont need racing spec, just rub clearance at the rear fender.

RCE wagon springs were spec'd at lowering 1.25" F and 0.75" rear.

[MikeK]

It has been my experience that whenever you want a "performance alignment" you generally need to provide the specs yourself. If you don't you get what is in the owner's manual.

Different car I know, but on my STi I could get close to -2 with one camber bolt in each strut, but I had to use 2 per strut to go more than that.

Just so that you know, I found out after I had mine installed and aligned that it is actually a bad idea to use more than one camber bolt in each strut because they are not as strong as the stock bolts. So far I have had 2 camber bolts in each strut up front for a few years with no problems, but it has been in the back of my mind. If you decide to go with only one bolt in each strut and can't get enough, I would probably recommend camber plates rather than a second bolt.

[sperry]

I'd take my car to KSpeed for an alignment, since that's where Cory is these days. You'll just have to wait for them to set up their new alignment rack.

Cory could also do the strut install beforehand I would guess. It probably wouldn't take him long, and you can skip the 2 ft breaker bar + jack handle explosions when breaking the strut bolts lose.

[MPREZIV]

If you can wait a little bit until we get our alignment machine calibrated, (as Scott said) we can definitely do all of that for you at KSpeed!

As far as your alignment specs, I can put whatever you want that the car will allow. I would not worry about getting more rear camber bolts. If all you're looking for is tire clearance with 225's, and you've already got rolled fenders, one pair of bolts will definitely take care of that. I can set up the rear for clearance, adjust the front camber accordingly, and likely keep the car from tramlining too bad, as you mentioned. Unfortunately, negative camber causes that issue, but you shouldn't be too bad, since you're not getting a drastic race alignment.

[zpeed]

I do not trust Sid's to do any work on my car anymore.

[A1337STI]

I have a spring compressor you can borrow

[cody]

1. I, also, had a bad experience with Sid's and won't go there again.

With your setup, I'd recommend -1.8 front, -1.5 rear. For a less tailhappy car, you could also do -1.8 front and rear, or -1.5 front and rear . Take your swaybar setup into consideration too. If you combine one of those three camber suggestions (or similar) with zero toe, all around, you won't see any uneven or increased tire wear, but will have a well balanced wagon. -1.5 in the rear should allow you to fit the tires without rubbing, especially if you have your fenders rolled. -1.8 might be necessary without a role.

Theoretically, I'm currently running about -1.5 in the rear, -1.8 in the front with no rubbing from my 245/40/17's on 17X8 +48 with rolled fenders (aside from a slight rub of the front fender liner at full lock). Before I rolled the fenders, I ran 225's. I didn't rub as long as I ran about -1.8 in the rear. I ran -2.2 in the front.

Disclaimer: Take these specs with a grain of salt since they were all on C&C's alignment rack, which may or may not be calibrated similarly to the alignment rack you end up on. Also, all WRX wagons are not created equally, though I'm not aware of any tire clearance/balance differences between our cars' MY.

2. Autozone has the correct spring compressor kit and you can borrow it for free. They also have the incorrect kit, so make sure you get the right one. The correct ones look like this:



Feel free to use an impact wrench/drill on them like in the pic, works great.

3. Cory.

If you do it yourself, an impact wrench would help a lot with R&R of the top strut bolt, but most strut manufactures tell you not to use one because you can damage the strut. I feel it's fine for removal and probably for reinstallation, if you're very careful not to exceed the proper torque specs. You can also do it with a breaker bar (borrow one from AutoZone if you don’t have one). But with a breaker bar, most of the time, you need to secure the strut shaft from spinning. Supposedly a strap wrench is the correct way to do this, but I’ve never been able to get one to grip. Instead, I use Vicegrips with an inner tube (from a bicycle) and a rag between the Vicegrips and the shaft. I also grip it as far up as I can, just in case the surface of the shaft is marred by the Vicegrips. This method has always worked well for me.

4. In the rear, you only need one set of camber bolts. I’ve always used Ingalls from Summit. They go in the top holes.

In the front, you’ll likely only be able to get about -1 degree of camber with the stock camber bolts. That may be fine for you since you don’t race and don’t want the car to tramline. If you want more, or will primarily be driving fast around corners (and don’t want uneven tire wear), you’ll want more (see part 1. of this post). You can do camber plates or go the more budget friendly way as I’ve done, and add aftermarket bolts (same type as you use in the rear) to the bottom holes in the front. Tell you alignment guy to max out the aftermarket camber bolts for negative camber (so they’re less likely to slip) and then use the OEM camber bolts in the top holes to adjust from there. The OEM bolts take something like 120 Lb/ft of torque but the thinner aftermarket bolts can only take about 80 Lb/ft so they’re more prone to slippage. That said, I’ve never had a problem and I’ve raced and daily driven my car with this setup for over half a decade. I do drive off road and hit potholes too.

Hope that helps.

Oh, and be very careful not to overtorque the 3 tophat nuts on each corner. The correct torque is like 12 Lb/Ft so use a tiny ratchet or a trustworthy torque wrench. Retorque all 4 nuts on each corner to spec after a week or so of driving after everything settles.

[cody]

I should also add, to the disclaimer in part 1. above, that you should compare your springs to the ones I run. Softer springs with a similar or lower drop, could mean your car is more prone to rubbing and understeer.

I run these: http://www.crucialracing.com/products/springs.php

All the specs are listed, there.

Pic of my car with them installed: http://www.crucialracing.com/images/springscodyscar.jpg

[Dean]

While it is not set in stone, the Impreza chassis typically like about 1 degree less camber in the rear than the front for optimal handling. Of course this entirely depends on the rest of your suspension and driving style, but it is a fair guideline.

It also gives them a more even wear pattern if properly rotated.

Remember, the typical way to setup a car is to set the front for optimal traction and adjust the rear for feel. In the Impreza, this often means standing up the rear tires (less negative camber, AKA closer to zero) and stiffening the sway bar to give the rear a little less traction so the car feels more neutral.

The problem with standing up the rears is they may rub, especially on a wagon.

Again, I could spend hours talking about setup, but that is not bad for a couple paragraphs.

[cody]

Keep in mind that wagons need more rear camber than a similarly modified sedan due to the increase of 80Lb in the top rear part of the vehicle. My car rotates plenty with alignments such as -2.2 front and -1.8 rear or -1.8 front and -1.5 rear.

This is fortunate because, as Dean pointed out, we have less fender clearance, especially in the rear, and the increased neg. camber also allows you to fit wider tires without rubbing.

[left footed whooten]

Whew, thanks yall, at work, I'll pick your brains a little more later. Just might take you all up on some of those offers. Cory, how long approximately till you get the alignment up and running?

[cody]

Oh, and always ask for an alignment sheet that indicates the before and after alignment specs. It's very useful for recording how different alignments affect the car.

And don't forget, zero toe, all around unless you want adverse tire wear.

With the taller sidewall height (and resulting flex) from 16's as apposed to 17's, theoretically, you could actually run more negative camber with regard to handling and tire wear.

[MPREZIV]

Originally Posted by left footed whooten

Whew, thanks yall, at work, I'll pick your brains a little more later. Just might take you all up on some of those offers. Cory, how long approximately till you get the alignment up and running?

Hopefully next week. Have to level the stands, and we'll be ready to go. There's a few other people in line for alignments as well, but we should be able to knock out most if not all of them by the end of the week, if everybody's ready, including you!

[left footed whooten]

Nice, Im down for an align around then. Where should I contact you to set something up and where is the shop? I am still waiting on my tophats and camber bolts before I can put my struts together. Ill probably do that myself since I can get a spring compressor now. Also, what are you charging for the align?

[MPREZIV]

Hey, sorry for the slow response. I'll send you a PM, or contact you here as soon as we're all up and running on that.

A standard 4 wheel alignment is $75. Sounds like yours should be pretty straight forward, so no biggie.

[left footed whooten]

Cool, tophats are backorder so still waiting. I'll definitely be getting an align from you guys.

[szucchet]

Hey I have 3 questions about alignment.
when I align my car I should try to get the most camber that I can get, what should I set my toe, and what about caster ( if adjustable)?

Where is a good place to pick some camber bolts, what size should I pick up?

So I installed a anti lift bushing, what exactly does it do alignment wise?

[cody]

Originally Posted by szucchet

Hey I have 3 questions about alignment.
when I align my car I should try to get the most camber that I can get, what should I set my toe, and what about caster ( if adjustable)?

Where is a good place to pick some camber bolts, what size should I pick up?

So I installed a anti lift bushing, what exactly does it do alignment wise?

1. For Stead, I'm finding that less negative camber isn't that bad, since it maximizes my braking. I use zero toe but Alex has a bunch of toe out. What handling characteristics would you like to change with alignment? Caster is not adjustable.

2. Ingalls from Summit

3. It adds caster.

[sperry]

1. The "proper" way to sort out camber is with a tire pyrometer. Right after coming off track, take the Inner Middle and Outer temps across the width of the tire. When the camber and tire pressure is "ideal" for the course you're on, you'll have the same temp all the way across the tire. If the inner temps are too high, you have too much negative camber. If the outer temps are too high, you have too little negative camber. If the middle temps are too high, you have too much air pressure. If the middle temps are too low, you have too little air pressure.

But that's an ideal. You might be able to set the car up on a skip pad to get even temps. In reality, you should shoot for a linear change across the tire... like I/M/O: 165/170/175. On a fast track with heavy braking, you'll end up heating the inner edge of the tire disproportionately on a car that perhaps has the correct camber for best grip. But at autocross, you'll usually see the outer temps the highest and a 10-20 degree difference between the highest and lowest temp IIRC (maybe Dean can chime in here... it's been ages since I've setup my car for autocross).

Caster can be adjustable if you have aftermarket top mounts. Some are slotted for both camber and caster adjustment, some can just be installed at an angle so the camber adjustment also adds caster. Either way, you generally want as much caster as you can get, since more caster = more dynamic negative camber when cornering = less static camber needed = better braking w/o giving up on cornering.

I like to set toe to zero all the way around the car. Toe out will definitely make the car more darty. A little toe out in the rear is really nice at autocross, and toe out up front can make the car turn better as well, but also makes it wander under braking. But for the race track, I like the better stability and predictability of zero toe... plus, any significant toe on the car at track speeds will magnify tire wear. I used to run toe out on my car for autocross, and took that same alignment to the track and killed a brand new set of RA1's in a day. Scrubbed the shoulders right off... after that, I started running zero toe, and a ton more negative camber at the track.

2. I dunno, I haven't bought camber bolts in like 8 years.

3. Like Cody said, it adds about half a degree of static caster to the front end. But that's not really the point of the ALK, since +.5deg caster isn't going to do all that much in terms of dynamic camber. The ALK changes the suspension geometry to help prevent the car from lifting the front-end under acceleration (hence the name "Anti Lift Kit").

The additional static caster is just a bonus, but it does mean realigning everything else on the front end, since it will push both camber and toe out of whack.

[WRXlerate]

Cory, is your alignment rack setup yet? I have a friend in need of one and would like to send him your way!

[100_Percent_Juice]

I will need an alignment too!

[MPREZIV]

Not yet, making some changes to the setup that we started out with... It's top on the priority list right now, but takes time. Sorry guys

[szucchet]

I am trying to set the car up for track/auto-x/street. I keep wearing the shoulder of my tires at track and auto-x. From what i understand i should keep toe at 0 and camber i was thinking in the neighborhoods of -2 to -2.5 and the rear -1.8 to -2 and nothing really i can do about caster besides the alk correct?

as far as camber bolts I kinda talked to Cory about getting some for the rear upper strut hole and some for the lower front strut hole, is there any special measurement for them, or just go to summit and ask for the ones that Cody mentioned (for MY of my car)?

I am planning on doing the alignment myself at school next week Is there anything else I should know?

Scott: first, thanks for the input. I wont have enough time to do the pyrometer test and wont be at the track for a little while (cant afford it right now), but will keep in mind for next track event i go to

[cody]

http://www.summitracing.com/search/P...s+camber+bolts

I'd start out with -2 front, -1.2 rear for camber, zero toe all around. Should be a good starting point.