And btw, Superman 2 was really good. It was one of those movies where you don't realize you've been sitting there for 2+ hours.

Yes, there was much in the way of Peter Parker's self-reflection and internal turmoil, but I think having it in the movie kept the action scenes in balance with the human interactions and depth of characters. I highly recommend it.

A lot of people (myself including, liberal though I may be) wonder if the obvious one-sidedness of the film actually hurts its credibility. But then again, I wonder if the conservatives could come up with a film that helps bush more than F-9/11 hurts him, without resorting to non-specific things like overall patriotism, loyalty to elected officials, etc... is there really enough ammo in the conservative war chest to counter all the things that can be said bad about GWB?

Well, I'm a conservative, and I would say the movie is provocative at the very least. When I left, I wanted to go dig into some of the findings revealed in the movie.

I probably would be less moved than most by this flick. I already plan to not vote for Bush simply because of his contradictions, lies, and inability to appear to be an intelligent, rational person in the international community. the only reason I ever hear from people wanting to defend him ties to personal politics- defending his overall policy agenda because it closely matches their own, rather than defending his execution of his duties.

There are already tons of information about the mis-information in this "documentary."

Here's one for starters.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124079,00.html

Only 7 individual rebuttals/clarifications by a conservative news agency? I imagien there were more than that many examples for Moore to prove his points. That kinda goes back to my earlier post- how much of this can be called untrue by the GWB supporters? Not enough to discount MM's view that he is a lousy president, in my humble and not fully informed opinion...

really I like to think of this movie as a fiction movie just for the simple fact it does not show both sides of the story but only what the auther wants us to see and hear.

I will vote for GWB just for the simple fact it is only 4 more years and we must finish what we started and not just vote in another moron to change everything back and start all over. Do you relly think Kerry could do a better job? honestly I dont think either are good canidates but this is what the party gives us and we have to pick from that :? .

as far as the movie making people change thier vote from GWB to JK thats what MM wants, he should run for president if he thinks it can be so easy :lol: hate to see the film on him for all his mistakes. which is the bottom line if we didn't try to find the guy with the least amount of dirt but found the guy with the best leadership even if he did smoke pot in college this country would be a better place.

this whole R vs. D thing sucks we need more parties to chose from, the parties we have now are not usefull as times keep changing.

a good one is JK was kick out of his church for being a Democrat why? Dem's beleive abortion is ok and its not, now JK has to stand by something his faith tells him is not ok but his party says he has to. I'm sorry but I would stand by my faith way before I would stand by my party!!!!!

You're going to link to FoxNews as a source for "clarification"? They're just as biased as Moore is!

My bottom line issue is not with GWB, but with the people he's surrounded by: Cheney, Rumsfeld, The Smoking Man, etc. Bush isn't that bad of a guy, but I don't really believe he's the one making US policy. The whole Iraq takeover reeks of big oil... these guys have had a master plan for the last 15 years regarding the middle east and they've just been foaming at the mouth ever since GB Sr. didn't implement it in Gulf War 1. Now that they're back in power, they've gone way over the line, screwing w/ American rights and ideals for their own gains. I don't need Michael Moore puking at me with his unethical use of out of context quotes and creative, one-sided editing to tell me that.

However, I still want to see F911... I expect I'll leave the theater agreeing with the points made, but being pissed they were made in such a one sided manner.

Anyway, back on the Spiderman topic. I did like the attempt to humanize Peter Parker. In fact that's always been the coolest part of the Spiderman story: SM's alter-ego is actually the more interesting character. (Actually, that's also what ruled about the original Batman movie.) I just thought Raimi was pounding it into my head a little to obviously.... how many scenes were there where we were explicily told that Peter feels torn between love for MJ and duty to the city? It just dragged IMO. I will say however, that it was much better than the alternative: 2 lines of dialog to string together action sequence after action sequence... roll credits.

You may like to think that but it's a completely false way of viewing the world. I have a book called The Art of Reasoning, you are welcome to borrow it.

Yes I think Kerry would do a better job. A person with no military experience and a history of failure in life compared with a military commander who lead during war time. The choice seems obvious even on a superfical level. Bush can do a lot of damage in 4 years, just look at the last 4 years. Kerry may start over, but Bush is moving us backwards. Just look at stem cell research and the space program.

Throwing support for someone and running yourself are two very different things. I hope you realize that. I do agree with finding the best man for the job though.

Not every religous person believes abortion is wrong you know. How do you know JK doesn't feel that way personally? If you ask me the situation is more of a poor reflection on the church (don't get me started) than on Democrats.

JC

This thread is a train-wreck in the making.

I need to see a movie :lol:

and stop talking politics and faith.

but JC, if GWB was as bad as a person you think he is he wouldn't be president. If we give the leaders our of the free world are prays we will be heard. :D

Nobody said he is a bad person, per se. But just because a man has faith, doesn't mean that it suits him to a job. Your garbageman may be a pretty good guy, but if we put him in charge of a nuclear reactor, all the prayer in the world wouldn't stop a meltdown.


...actually, that metaphor is a little too damn appropriate. Wow.

Two subjects best not talked about on internet forums. :lol:

I don't think he's a bad person. I just think he is stupid and unfit for the job. Like you said people with clean background get elected not people who are best suited for the job. Though he's niether really, but he's managed to convince a lot of people that he's an honest upstanding guy.

JC

After seeing F 911 I know two things for sure:

1. Michael Moore knows how to make an engaging documentary

2. Michael Moore doesn't know what a documentary is.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: You should see the argument I got into about calling Moore a "documentarian" over on NASIOC. Crap, it looks like the thread might be dead now...

IMHO the issue is not GWB, but almost everyone near him... The corruption that surrounds him, due to his history, his father, the party, or whatever, is the problem. Chaney-Haloburton (sp?) is just the tip of the iceburg, and I haven't even seen the movie yet.

These are the people I didn't vote for, and am ready to try a new set of people I didn't vote for. Hopefuly JK has or will make better choices about who he surrounds himself with.

Not that I am religious, but it would seam that praying for the people of the United States, their children, etc. would have a better outcome than doing so for the leader. If the former prayers are answered, then the right leader will be in place... Did I reason that right JC? :)

Sorry I wasn't able to make it to the movie with anyone..I got put on fire duty at work...Not complaining at all mind you my tech pay plus 35 and hour from the NDF :D I've been working from 6:30 to 9:00 or 10:00 at night.