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-   -   Let's Talk Turbos! (https://www.seccs.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6502)

sperry 2007-12-20 01:17 PM

How hard is the intake rotation? Just a matter of bolting it on backwards, routing the throttle cable, and re-plumbing the cold side of the intercooler piping?

Double Phister 2007-12-20 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry (Post 111785)
How hard is the intake rotation? Just a matter of bolting it on backwards, routing the throttle cable, and re-plumbing the cold side of the intercooler piping?

I think the biggest headache is dealing with the A/C but I don't think you have that problem :)

To bad you have to deal with the throttle cable though.

GST Mike 2007-12-20 01:28 PM

Throttle cable is just a bracket not such a big deal, also a bracket to relocate the alternator as if I recall you don't have AC.

Intercooler piping is not a huge job either just requires some mad TIG skillz y0..

Mike

knucklesplitter 2007-12-20 04:06 PM

I hate to argue the rotated intake manifold thing, especially with Mike advocating it... but how much IC tubing length does that save? What - 2 or 3 feet of 2.75"OD tubing? That's about 200 cubic inches (or about 1/8 cubic foot) of volume. How long does it take for a 400whp turbo to pressurize 1/8 of a cubic foot? That would be the gain in response. 400whp is say 500bhp which is about 500cfm or 8 cubic feet per second for a whopping 0.015 sec reduction in response just SWAGging it. I dunno - there must be something I don't understand. And running speed density (or BTM) there is not the lag time between MAF reading and induction into the cylinders either - that's the thing I don't like about FMIC and its long tubing along with draw-thru MAF.

GST Mike 2007-12-20 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knucklesplitter (Post 111800)
I hate to argue the rotated intake manifold thing, especially with Mike advocating it... but how much IC tubing length does that save? What - 2 or 3 feet of 2.75"OD tubing? That's about 200 cubic inches (or about 1/8 cubic foot) of volume. How long does it take for a 400whp turbo to pressurize 1/8 of a cubic foot? That would be the gain in response. 400whp is say 500bhp which is about 500cfm or 8 cubic feet per second for a whopping 0.015 sec reduction in response just SWAGging it. I dunno - there must be something I don't understand. And running speed density (or BTM) there is not the lag time between MAF reading and induction into the cylinders either - that's the thing I don't like about FMIC and its long tubing along with draw-thru MAF.

I can only offer what we see on the dyno which on the same car shows to be a 200-300rpm difference depending on gear and load, also the transient throttle response is greatly improved. This is based off a GT30r running a Hydra tested same day.

Depends on what's worthwhile for people I guess, from a racing standpoint where rule restrictions are in place I'll typically take it where I can get it and with it being a none to costly or timely modification it just makes sense to make the efficiency where ever you can.

Mike

Dean 2007-12-20 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GST Mike (Post 111803)
I can only offer what we see on the dyno which on the same car shows to be a 200-300rpm difference depending on gear and load, also the transient throttle response is greatly improved. This is based off a GT30r running a Hydra tested same day.

Depends on what's worthwhile for people I guess, from a racing standpoint where rule restrictions are in place I'll typically take it where I can get it and with it being a none to costly or timely modification it just makes sense to make the efficiency where ever you can.

Mike

I would guess it is due to fewer total degrees of tubing angle and thus turbulence in flow that makes the difference, not so much tubing length.

Double Phister 2007-12-20 04:35 PM

I think you have to factor in the fact that the whole system is feedback driven. If the turbo were simply spun at full speed by some outside force then you'd have a marginal improvement. But if you need to make exhaust to spin the turbo to make the boost to make more exhaust....I can see where there would be more benefit. Especially when going from no boost to full.

knucklesplitter 2007-12-20 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GST Mike (Post 111803)
I can only offer what we see on the dyno which on the same car shows to be a 200-300rpm difference depending on gear and load, also the transient throttle response is greatly improved. This is based off a GT30r running a Hydra tested same day.

That's excellent info - no doubt. I just wish I understood the "why?" better. And is that both cold and hot sides changing when rotating the manifold?

knucklesplitter 2007-12-20 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R4ND0M_AX3 (Post 111805)
I think you have to factor in the fact that the whole system is feedback driven. If the turbo were simply spun at full speed by some outside force then you'd have a marginal improvement. But if you need to make exhaust to spin the turbo to make the boost to make more exhaust....I can see where there would be more benefit. Especially when going from no boost to full.

This is a good point.

GST Mike 2007-12-20 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean (Post 111804)
I would guess it is due to fewer total degrees of tubing angle and thus turbulence in flow that makes the difference, not so much tubing length.

Yup no doubt, it's a total efficiency thing.

Mike


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