I don't entirely understand what Nate can and can't control on the ECU, but I think the other thing that Nate's new numbers for my car tell us is that to have maximum performance in Reno, there must be room in the maps, or whatever to allow the ECU to take advantage of the lower air density, at minimum by advancing timing further.

Does that sound right?

I have no idea if the ECU knows anything about altitude, or air density.

Nate, Help... I'm over my head, but for us altitude folks, it is an important issue. We want as much power in Reno, or at 7000+ feet even as possible without blowing up our cars when we go to Sac, or SF for the weekend.

So if you really want to be Competative IN a (turbo)Stock Class you can store your car at High Altitude and then only bring it down for events and only let it do runs and not drive around.. :lol:

Ok,
The car isnt making more power in alititude than at closer to sea level , its that the car will more willingly advance the timing in higher elevations, once you come down in altitude and start pushing the car a bit, the ecu will find that the car is pinging, and reduce the timing till it is no longer present, then slowly advance again till it finds its "happy place" once more. The ecu has HUGE control over the timing, I can modify the base timing map, and where the advance multiplier starts at , but the ecu can still add or pull more timing then it would ever need. ( well, you could if you didnt know what you were doing push the timing map so out of wack that the computer cant come back to a safe point )
There are sensors on your car that will measure atmospheric pressure and help compensate ( most newer cars have this )

And Tyson, that would only work if you trailerd the car to the event , and by the time you were done w 1-2 runs the ecu would be back to normal. :lol:

Yes, the ecu was mearly adapting to conditions here, based on this data I am going to double our usual baseline pull's on non dyno days ( from 1 warmup and 3 pulls to warmup and 6 pulls ) For tuning, the trick to speed up the learning process a bit does work very well, I have been doing the same thing for a bit now ( you can achive the same result by putting the car under load w the brakes after a ecu reset or re-flash ) The reason I did not do this when testing today was I was looking for good data on what the ecu was doing to explain the higher than average numbers from the reno cars.

Although it does seem that the higher reading cars were inverse to who was driving fast on the way down, which makes sense based on the data we recieved today.

hope this answers the questions, if you have more just ask!

-Nate

ok nate, since i am running the UTEC and have full control over my timing map, how much timing should i be able to run, and if you have any suggestions on what my timing map should look like that would be helpfull also....i am running about 22 advance points on the top end 5000+, and as low as 15 down in the low 3300-4400. just seeing what you think....i can use all the help i can get.
ryan

Name: Mike K
Car: 2004 WRX
Mods: APS Uppipe, Cobb turboback, samco IC Hoses, Cobb stage 2 reflash
Wheel HP: 230.3 @ 6300 RPM
Wheel Torque: 217.2 @ 4500 RPM
Dyno: Mustang @ Cobb Tuning 9th April 5:25pm

Can anyone convert between cobb dyno numbers and ssquared dyno numbers? Here is my attempt:

My stock dyno numbers that morning were:

Hp: 186.3 @ 5900
Tq: 182.2 @ 4100

Basically I gained 19.2% tq, 23.6% hp. The dyno at SSquared reads about 150 for a normal stock WRX, right? So that would mean that I am at 150 * 1.236 = 185 Hp. When is the next dyno day? :)

Scott, what are your numbers after ESX?

Wow! Nice gains. It looks as if Cobb's dyno reads slightly higher than S-Squared, but still excellent performance gains.

I think you can go down there anytime for pulls on the DYno for $60, but don't use the quote button on that.

Well, my basically stock car evened out at about 160, and assuming your numbers are stable, that puts the Cobb dyno about 15% higher than the S-Squared

Great numbers man! :shock:

Don't forget that Cobb is up at altitude, so there could be an issue with their conversion for lack of oxygen.

As far as my Dyno numbers at ESX, I still need to get them to send me a printout of the runs. According to the tuner there I pulled 197hp at the wheels, and like 380 torque! :shock: Of course I don't believe that torque number... it must be a different method of calculating it, and I wouldn't compare it to the other torque numbers we've been talking about. I'd guess the car's got around 200 to 210 ftlbs of torque from the way it drives.

Of course, there's the whole ESX vs. S-Squared dyno issue. Nate seemed to think that ESX's dyno reads lower than their Mustang Dyno. He gave an example that my car that pulled 186hp on the S2 dyno would probably pull a 160-170hp at ESX... so with that logic, I'd guess my car's in the 210-220awhp range on Nate's dyno... which is right at about stock STi range.

we just need a 1/4 mile track :lol: :lol:

that would clear everything up :lol:

The weather stations should take that into account. This is why we are posting the Dyno information, so we know when, where and on what it was done. Did they do a baseline before you started. That would be a great way to compare ESX to S-Squared.

My baseline pulls would be useless because they were done with the UniChip removed and new parts installed. I didn't get any dyno time until they were ready to tune it after my parts install.

Crap. Oh well. Just have to go back down to S-Squared I guess. When's the next Dyno Day?

That's what I'm talking about... I wouldn't mind getting a few pulls over there again to compare to my UniChip pulls.

That's quite a torque monster you've got there from that little 2.0L motor. :lol:

Actually, the more I drive it the more I'm amazed at the tuning. It really pulls nice and smoothly in every gear. Lot's more power down low than before. I know it's not 380 tq... but it does feel very nice!

I'm thinking the 380 ftlbs at the wheels is some number uncompensated for the car's gear ratio or something... I'm not totally sure how it works.

233 whp
220 #'

On vishnu's dyno - dyno dynamics I think??

Vishnu Stage 2 on our incredibly crappy 91 Oct gas.

What's your exact setup? That's a bit low for a VS2.

Vishnu's dyno is conservative. 233 whp on their dyno is the same as 275 whp on a dynapack. They usually get around 240 with a stage 2 on 91 oct. & 250 whp on 93. My car was just having a bad day or a bad tank of gas. When it pulled 240, it knocked too much for my liking, so we de-tuned to eliminate the dreaded knocking. My set-up is the following:

03 sedan
Vishnu signature series turbo back, vf34, sti injectors, walbro pump, Vishnu stage 2 remap, vishnu intercooler hoses and power pulley, apexi type V-N coilovers, Stoptech 12.9" big brake kit, cusco 22mm rear bar, kart boy ss and links, helix solid end links, 17x8 Rota Torques w/ falken azensis st-115 235/40/17. (ouch $$$$)

If you'd like your info listed, please submit it in the format from the first post.

Thanks

I used to work for Vishnu, so I am well aware of the conservative nature of the DynoDynamics unit. :) It's not unusual for ~5 hp fluctuations on the very top end to happen, but your peak torque seems a bit low too. I was just curious. Nothing wrong with nice conservative tunes. ;)

Damn, I thought my car was fast....O'well,how can I get more power. Do you think it might be the Tahoe gas, air filter? Do I need a bigger intercooler? What do you think?

your only 7hp off the mark of 240 so I would say your running good it might just be elevation........if you really want more power($$$$) there are things you could do, but from what I read you are happy with the cars current setup? sounds like a fun ride :D

Name: Nick
Car: '03 wrx sedan
Mods: Vishnu Stage 2 w/ Vishnu components
Wheel Hp: 233.3
Wheel Tq: 216
Dyno: Vishnu Dyno Dynamics

Where do I get that, and how does it fit?

Well 1st, sell the WRX and buy a 5.0L Mustang. :lol:

Then call Ramsey Raceing Engineering at (813)885-5913 and get a gigantor turbo and what looks like completely custom fabed intake manifold and exhaust headers, as well as several thousand dollars worth of supporting parts. :lol:

I just realized that thing's got dual blow off valves and no intercooler. :shock: That must be an insane drag motor!

I was totally gonna say that... :lol:

Is that dyno tuned? If so, you can't write it off to altitude or gas (although Reno gas is the same as Bay Area gas anyway). And I never said it wasn't fast. ;) It's quite possible that your car is just slightly knock prone at high RPMs. What spark plugs are you using, and how many miles did they have when you dyno'd? What was the gap?

I was joking. It is plenty fast for me. Yes that was dyno tuned by Shiv. I think you are correct though. I never even thought of the plugs (duh!). They were the stock plugs, I never checked the gap. The car had about 8,000 miles on it when it was dyno tuned. Shiv commented that some cars are just knock prone. He made no mention of changing plugs, but that is certainly worth a try and another dyno tune. My car has been acting a little odd at highway speeds, so I may be going back to Vishnu this summer anyways. At WOT the boost oscilates (sp?) between 12-14 psi. It is not noticeable in lower gears, but in 4th you can feel the power fluctuate. I'll post a new topic on that subject and see if anyone else has the similar issue.

It's detecting knock (or you have a bad boost solenoid). The correct plugs may indeed correct the probl;em. Otherwise, Shiv is likely right in that you either have a knock-prone car, or it thinks it's detecting knock, which has the same effect. :)

I am hopefully going to S-Squared on Saturday. Nate is going to have a look and dyno tune. I hope it is not a knock prone car. We are going to try the new plugs.

Hey Ban Suvs, thanks for sending me (at least I think you did) to S-Squared. I just got back. Spent a few hours on the dyno. Nate fixed the problem. He had to re-flash, but man what a difference. The power delivery is smoother than ever. My car ran 230.4 whp @ 7000 rpm and 213.5 Ft-lbs @ 4750 on the Mustang Dyno. The car pulls so much harder at higher speeds now. I must say, I am very impressed with their shop and staff. So what is my car now? An S-Squared stage 2?

They gave me plenty of suggustions for more power...he he he.

Dean, if you want to update my numbers and dyno, feel free.

Glad it worked out for you. I'm not sure if it was me primarily that got you into the shop, but I'm glad you did. Nate's going to be doing most of the work on my turbo conversion, whenever I get around to it. :)

Just returned from s-squared
 

I saw this post a week or two back, and now that I have some numbers I thought I'd thow 'em up. I'm actually pretty happy with them, although, with injectors I could do a lot better.

Mods: k&n intake, BPM uppipe, MRT turboback, VF30@14.5 psi

Before ecutek: 189.3 whp@6000 173.6 ft-lb@4750
After ecutek: 220.8 whp@6750 190.8 ft-lb@5500

I'm pretty happy about my before and after numbers.

I wonder what 18 psi would be like....

Berndt

Re: Just returned from s-squared
 

Before and After numbers are great...

If you want them added to the first post, please provide the following information...

Name:
Car: (Yr Model)
Mods: (Power Mods)
Wheel HP: (XXX) @ (YYYY) RPM
Wheel Torque: (TTT) @ (ZZZZ) RPM
Dyno: (type @ Company Date Time)

Please specify if any changes other than flash from before to after.

See the first post for examples.

Thanks

OK, correctly formatted this time:
Name: Berndt Jung
Car: (Yr Model) 2002 WRX
Mods: (Power Mods) K&N intake, BPM uppipe, MRT turboback, IHI VF30

---Before Ecutek---
Wheel HP: (189.3) @ (6000) RPM
Wheel Torque: (173.6) @ (4750) RPM

---After Ecutek---
Wheel HP: (220.8) @ (6750) RPM
Wheel Torque: (190.8) @ (5500) RPM

Dyno: (Mustang @ s-squared 6/1/04)

Wow! Great Numbers.

Great... Any idea what peak or target boost before and after was, and I'll put that in as well.

those are some nice gains Congrats!
:shock: :D

Well I was running stock boost before (maybe a hair less) the reflash, and 14.5 psi after.

Berndt

See you all at Reno Fernley

Name: Mike K (MikeK)
Car: 2004 WRX
Mods: APS Uppipe, Cobb turboback, samco IC Hoses, Cobb stage 2 reflash
Wheel HP: 190.4 @ 6500 RPM
Wheel Torque: 174.1 @ 3750 RPM
Dyno: Mustang @ S-Squared Motorsports 17 July 2004 12:59pm

Was this the same map you had in at Cobb? If not, can you describe what was different?

Name: JC
Car: 2000 2.5RS
Mods: Cobb Tuning CAI, Mr. Josh LW Pulley, Exedy Clutch & Lightweight flywheel, MRT headers & cat, Greddy EVO catback
Wheel HP: 132.1 @ 5750 RPM
Wheel Torque: 134.6 @ 4000 RPM
Dyno: Mustang @ S-Squared Motorsports 17 July 2004

Yes, it is the same map. When I got home, I compared the two graphs. On my cobb printout it has stock vs the modified version. The stock version has a lot of bumps and dips in the torque curve, but the modified version is a lot smoother and flatter, and the torque comes on a lot earlier.

When I look at the s-squared printout, the shape of the torque curve has gone back to be the same as the stock one. I am guessing that the ECU has relearned itself back into the old shape or something. I am quite happy with my max Hp number, but I think I could use more torque across the middle of the rpm range. Scott's car, which admittedly has a lot more modifications than mine and did spend 5 hours on a dyno being tuned, made 20+ ft-lbs of torque more that mine right across the midrange. I wonder if the off the shelf cobb map is not exactly right for my car, I might need a custom map. Unfortunately I don't want to spend anymore money on it, plus now that I have gone down the accessport road I would probably have to go back to utah to get it done :(

Name: Nick
Car: 2003 wrx
mods: Vishnu sig. series exhaust, vf-34. STI injectors, walbro 255, vishnu power pulley, STI intercooler, and an S-Squared re-flash with dyno tune.
Wheel hp: 241.6 @ 6500 rpm
Wheel Torque: 220.4 @4750
Dyno: Mustang @ S-Squared Motorsports 14 July 2004

How is this possible? As someone that is waiting for their cobb accessport and is looking forward to it's benefits, I am alarmed by this report.