my dad told me to tell you as far as he in conserned he does not give a shit if its my car or his car as long as we both have fun in it

Thats what I sort of just said. I have fun in my dad's 69 and 03 vette too. Its not a bad thing.

Sam, I'd like to apologize what i said was stupid and childish. To be honest with you i'm jealous, i wish my parents could buy me a car like that. I never owned my car, the bank did, and as for my mom helping me out, never with the WRX, she made one car payment for me when i was between jobs, on the Lancer (Which i'll never hear the end of). So I hope we can put this stupid argument behind us and move on.

Anyways, I know we haven't seen any sucessful DSM stories in our group, being the Carson kids. Reno has had a couple good DSM, you need only to look at Josh's 1g, Ryan's 2g. DSM's get the same rep. as rotaries, its all on how the car is maintained, i'm not saying Morgan, Kalen, or Tim can't maintain, a car they just got bad cars to begin with. Lets face it, most people really can't maintain a car. They beat the shit out of it, and expect it to run for ever. For example I took good care of my WRX, oil changes every 2500 miles, flushing the radiator every 10000 miles, and evrything else. On the other hand Morgans WRX was, well lets just say not in the best shape, no disrespect to Morgan who is a friend of mine, but even being boosted to 21psi, you said you're self my stock car felt faster, Anyways i'm to see Without A Paddle, take it easy everyone.

You dont know what the fuck you're talking about. You still know jack shit about cars. My friends WRX broke down way more than my shitty DSM - and his car was NEW!!! His clutch gave out on him after a trip to san francisco and his transmition SHATTERED after 5 months. But, I'm sure you think your car is superman because you've never heard any of the WRX horror stories. Do some research before you dogg DSMs of being "shitty cars". You must also remember that the DSMs you've probably delt with are about 10 years old. Thats 10 times the chance that the car will fall into a abusive hands.

I'm not trying to dogg YOUR car or anything, because I love WRXs, but you really need to shut your mouth. Like I said in fernley, I'll be happy to help you out with your car and power making decisions, but talking shit about other peoples PRIDES and PASSIONS is a REAL good way to make enemies.

Did you seriously just say that DSMs are more reliable than Subarus? WTF are you smoking? Mitsubishi's entire board of directors had to give a PUBLIC FUCKING APOLOGY in the late 90's because their cars were shit. It would have been followed by seppuku had it happened maybe 10 years earlier. They were that screwed. And yeah, Chrysler's got a real solid reputation for making quality automobiles from the 70's to the present day. So a joint project between the two naturally catapulted the quality up there with Toyota and Honda right? :rolleyes: Get over yourself dude. I understand that you have a pretty good car that runs well and is somewhat fast, but DSMs, as a whole, compared to other cars in this country are NOT as well built or reliable. Period. So if you really want to beat your DSM drum, find a crowd that cares. We don't. We respect the fact that you are an enthusiast who loves cars in general and yours in particular, but we aren't going to view DSMs through rose colored glasses. Maybe somebody should point out to you once again that this is the SUBARU Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras. While we don't exclude anybody from the club for not driving a Subaru (some very prominent members don't own one or also own significant non-Subarus) you seriously need to find another place to talk shit about Subaru.

from what i have seen i have seen the 4g63 break more then any of me or my friends subaru's. may be because it was poorly taken care of or it may be because it is not built right. The reason i was dog'n on bob is because he talked more shit about dsm's when he got his subaru then anyone i know....maybe just to bug lib, or maybe because they do break a lot....i have my reasons for not liking them also. i would have bought an evo ovber my car anyday if i did not hear of so many problems with them. you do have no understand from my point of veiw it looks like DSM are the worse cars ever built. morgan did fuck up all of his, lib went through two not, kaylins got crank walk, erics evo blew up. and both of reece's were fucked up. Why??? i dont know.(dont mean for it to sound like a big dick contest) now to go through the subaru's. bob WRX was just about perfect, morgans was just streight fucked, mine is fine, our friend alex's is perfect.....now from my point of veiw DSM are realy not looking so good. i know the 4g63 CAN be a bad ass motor but majority of the ones i have seen are shit.

Okay...This thread has gone way off into Vtech land ( no offense to honda owners), but threads like this are not welcome on this board. Chill.

Fact...The car in question is a rare find, looks like a good buy, I say go for it....

Irrelevant... generalizing ANY make by perception. When I hear "All DSM's are trash" I cringe because I know that they can be built into fairly reliable cars, I know of 2 such DSM's owner by friends of mine in years past. Furthermore; When all WRX's are junk because " The tranny blew out and the clutch fried."...hmmm? I wonder how competant the driver is or how hard the car has been beat on...

Proof...Dean, Scott, Tyson, Mike K and myself all drive our cars very hard in extensive autocross, track days and even solo1 :twisted: and have had no issues. (knocking on wood as I type) Could that have something to do with the skill level? I think so...

Basically, I think the owner/ driver has 80% to do with a cars reliability, 20% with the make....Except when it comes to Volkswagons ( :lol: )

So there...Lay off the insults or this thread is getting black flagged!

I agre with Matt this post has gone WAY off topic. I love both types of cars, and i think i'm going to buy that car.

Thank You

the talon or the RS?

just kidding :lol:

Anyways sometimes people feel it necessary to defend the things they love. While I'm not saying ryan loves his car I know he likes it quite a bit. I can see how everyone can get all worked up after all we all love to talk about cars.

Some people can take offense easily others cannot. Just try to remember where some people put their priorities. This is message board with people who actually know each other, try to remember that also. Like matt said it really hurts when topics start to get so heated and personal with no real good reason. We can argue about cars there is nothing wrong with that, just try not to attach so much sentimentality to the post.

I'll street race you to death!










I'm going to bed.

BAN SUVS - Dont talk down to me and act all big behind your computer screen. First of all, if you READ what I said, I never said WRXs were more reliable than DSMs; I said that MY DSM (specific) was more reliable than my friends WRX (specific). Does this "register"? Also, I was around with SECCS guys before you were, and I thought they were awesome people. Everyone was real nice to me, and they continue to be nice to me. The reason to why I like SECCS so much is that it's a classy group of guys that are into cars. And I hope their reputation isn't ruined by people like you. And FYI, I never talked shit about WRX. Instead of just scanning my post, why dont you read it in an attempt to understand it?

scoobanader- While Bobs WRX was perfect, I bet his DSM is perfect. He's the type of guy that will take CARE of his cars, so I doubt it will fail. If it has anything wrong with it, it will be something due to age, that any car can get. Remember, the oldest WRX is only two years old.... and damnit, i told you to talk shit on OUR boards! :twisted: :P

MattR- I agree almost 100% to what you said, besides me saying "Furthermore; When all WRX's are junk ..." I never said that, I just gave you guys a scenerio. :) But besides that, well said.

<3

I do love my car btw. :P

If you don't buy it, you should post it so someone else can. It seems like a good buy.

Yes, DSMs arnt the most sturdy thing ever built, but to generalize is wrong. Same with Ryan's comment about Subaru's. There is always an exception.

I know I havent had the best luck with DSMs, but I know why it all happened. My 1g- The recall on transfer case was never done, and I didnt know about it. I quickly found out when it locked up on the freeway at 85 mph :shock: My 2g- the car was questionable when I bought it. I never felt confident in that rebuild, and now I have two burnt valves in the #2 cylinder to show for it. The GVR4- Ive learned alot and this galant will be proof of that. I hope to rebuild/restore it and have it running like it just rolled off the show room floor.

Let's get back on topic though. Bobby, buy that damn 1g.

What I read was you tearing Sam a new asshole for suggesting that he had "never seen a DSM last very long unless it is bone stock." The first words of your post were

So explain to me how I'm out of line for calling BS on you? Fine, you didn't make the claim that DSMs are more reliable than Subarus- I'm still claiming that DSMs are not quality automobiles. Blame it on whatever you want; owners, attitudes, age, luck, alignment of the planets... they break. More than most cars. I will grant you that a lot of problems with DSMs are owner-caused. I am very distrustful of the average DSM guys "tech" because I have seen so many dumb things done with them. So naturally, when some guy I've never heard of before shows up on SECCS and starts spouting DSM tuner truths like

and

and

It just bugs the shit out of me that someone who has never owned a recent model subaru, never learned how they work, never bothered to learn what makes it different from other cars comes to a tech-oriented, Subaru-driven message board and gives the noobs DSM tech advice. I want to make this very clear: the tuning tricks and methods used by the DSM community, by and large, ARE NOT good ideas for applying to Subarus. It doesn't mean that it's not good advice on an Eclipse. But stop giving tech advice to people on this board because you simply don't know enough about the WRX to do so. I sincerely hope that you understand that I'm not attacking you for wanting to help other SECCS members out; I have exactly the same motivation for being here. Bad advice is bad advice, even if it was well-meaning. Please understand that I spend a significant amount of time trying to stem the tide of misinformation that seems to wash over all new Subaru owners, and I am the same way here on SECCS. So, I'd like to set aside the fact that I don't like DSMs nor do I like the stereotypical DSM owner. I assumed you were one of those people because your first three posts on this board in over a year were:

and

and then

Then, just last night:


Perhaps you can understand why I came to the conclusion that you weren't like the rest of SECCS, which you described just now as "a classy group of guys that are into cars." Forgive me if I'm wrong, but perhaps your first impression with me didn't quite match that description. So, after establishing yourself in my eyes as the typical DSM owner who thinks his shit doesn't stink and has a chip on his shoulder and/or an inferiority complex about his car of choice, you start giving poor techinical advice, which is the much greater sin.

Perhaps my perception of you is off the mark. Maybe I've taken things you intended as jokes to be things you actually believed. Whatever the case, I'd rather be proven wrong in my current view that you're not the kind of person who belongs in this group.

If you are willing to give it a shot, I'll try to put aside my perception of you as a typical DSM egotistical ricer idiot if you'll let me dispel your perception of me as an e-thugging shittalking asshole with no tolerance for enthusiasts of other marques. I'd like the chance to explain to you why the advice you've given in the tech forums isn't good advice here even though it's the gospel at DSMtuners. It works great there. It's not so good here. All I ask is that you are willing to consider the possibility that that is the truth. There's no reason why the two of us can't get get along here, since we both consider ourselves the classy car guys that this group is founded on. Unless of course, one or both of us is right about the other. ;)

For the record, if it wasn't for the fact that I need another coupe like I need a colostomy bag, I'd be considering that Eclipse as a winter car myself. SOMEBODY here should snatch that up, it's a great deal.

what is this, testosterone-fest?
:roll:
Sifting thru some of this potty-mouth talk (and I'm not putting it down mind you, we are a free-speech oriented board of diversity), I can relate to the post talking about where a recall problem that the owner didn't hear about led to failure. (Happened to me on a Dodge Caravan, and I was hopping mad the company didn't take care of it 2 years after the recalls, I didn't know about it because I wasn't the original owner.) A valuable lesson I'd like to make sure others don't have to repeat.... Thanks for that good tidbit.

Send the flames if you want (for rolling my eyes), you're not going to ruin the good mood I have going today because of some news I got last night .... 8)

Which was...?

The eagle talon I had, for what it was worth, only started having problems at 65,000 miles and they were fairly minor - clutch, altenator and something else which I can't remember. I had no mods on the car though and I didn't exactly beat the car like I do my wrx.

For the record. If I had the money, I would be driving a 2.5 RS.

http://www.seccs.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1868

Wow Ban... You have way too much time on your hands. Well, first of all my friends was one of the first people to EVER own a WRX in this city. We were eyeing them before they were shipped to the states. So, that's when I first started getting my hands underneither a WRX. And all my "dsm" related posts that arn't related to wrx's - did you even VISIT the website I gave about the exhaust? If you did, you would have noticed they make turbo backs fror the STI. And as far as ME having one of their custom products, I'd thought I'd give me opinion of these products. Especially for a current STi owner LOOKING for an exhaust product. About the EGT gauge - I believe I made more sense than you did. He had the autometer to which he can only peg at the opt. temp, so why would you put it closer to the cylinder head? I also consulted another friend I have made over the years (he actaully ran low 12s with his WRX and also build stroker engines for them) and he told me I was correct. If you care to visit our website and services we offer, you can take a look at my website below this post. Note that it is not the main website, but a test one to later put up to the main.

Nice way to break out the name calling. "DSM ricer idiot?" How's my car rice? And how am I an idiot? Wait, do you even know me? Eh, I just feel stupid trying to explain myself to you. I shouldn't have to and I wont. You argue back like we're in a sibling fight and you're constantly trying to get the upper hand. Well, congrats, you can have it. I just dont want to bring myself down to your level. Everything I have said on this board was an attempt to 'help', not compete. Even though I do drive a 4 cylinder turbo car, wait most of the people in your club do to; I have done alot of work to my car and gained quite a bit of knowledge about these types of cars and certain applications they can aquire. If anything, I was just trying to be helpful and open different doors so the members of this board can get the best quality for the best price. I've always tried to help people out with their current or potential modification ideas, and to offer a different insight than a guy with a NA-4 who thinks he knows everything. If you still feel REAL passonate about this and you STILL want to get ontop of the situation, how about instead of flaming me on your computer I can come to a WRX meet or where-ever and we can discuss this in person sometime. But until then, I refuse to respond to a computer nerd acting big and bad behind his monitor.

Jeez... I thought you guys were finished in here. :roll:

Either way, you are now.

You beat me to it.

I warned em...