There's no definate "last day", but if nobody beats Sperry's current time by next Tuesday at 11:28PM, he wins.

Yeah it is the JPN version. I believe the changes between the 2 are on the license tests and challenges where they adjust the times to make it easier/harder.

It's a debacle!

New time.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y83...2/DSC01561.jpg

I can squeeze another .3s, I know ...

HAHA!!!! I just beat that,

1'27.219

ill see if my roomate will let me borrow his digital camera when he gets home

You got a long way to go.

125.387 rss tires. Has anyone tried the difference in their driving between auto and manual. Auto I could bearly break 127.

I'll try the steering wheel this weekend.

I'm on manual, w/ the wheel... as always.

Any chance you can vid cap a replay of that lap? I gotta see where you picked up over 2 seconds. :eek: And just to make sure... you're not dicking w/ the hp or weight, are you? :P

Edit: after 2 laps with the hp up and the weight down, and the gearing changed to match the track, I ran a 1'24.607 with a ton of mistakes. Which raises the question, what are we allowed to change? I was assuming only the tires since that's all that was stipulated in the original post... are we allowed to change everything that arcade mode allows?

I thought the whole point of the arcade mode is so you have a standard car where you don't even have the difference of the oil change like GT mode.

Yeah, but there are handicap settings, like +/- power, +/- weight, top speed (gear ratios), and tires.

According to the original challenge, we're allowed to change tires, but nothing was mentioned about the other settings. IMO, we might as well allow any changes arcade mode allows, just so there's no question about someone bumping up a little hp just to get that extra .1s.

I agree with Sperry. I didn't know these settings were available either. Might as well use them if they're there.

1.30+ then I drop the weight got me a best time 1.29.060. got to try more power and gear ratio thing. So all setting go right? Damn 1'24 now...long ways for me.

I'm confused. So we aren't using the car stock? I thought an oil change fer sure, but that's it. Somebody explain damn it.

I didn't think you could do oil changes in arcade mode. I haven't even looked to see where these "handicap" settings are. But do whatever you can to make your car faster within the posted rules, I guess.

License tests eliminate all of the variables (except for bemani's JDM version).

Isn't there a superlicense test on the 'ring?

No, I was in standard arcade mode, no messing with the car. I did not save it, but I know I can repeat it this weekend. I did have several runs in the 1:26's. I'm going to try it with the wheel this weekend. I will save the replay. I was also using the ghost mode which I think helped with my times, although at several locations on the track the ghost was doing the identical speed and location so I couldn't see crap. The places where you gain time are obvious: hitting 8/9/10/11 are absolutely key.

Now if I could just translate that driving to reality!

Remember I am also playing in front of a 57" widescreen to help my old tired eyes.

This is it. That all I need 57" wide screen. Nice

What were your sector times for the 1:25 run?

Until you guys with better times post screenshots, I think this is our currentl leader right?

Right, though if you adjust the handicaps, it's a breeze to get into the 1'24's, so it won't last long. I think I've got a low 1'23 in me, but if Nick really ran a 1'25 w/o touching the weight or power, we're all boned once he cranks up the power and cranks down the weight.

However, if Nick can't match his controller performance w/ the wheel, then I think we've got proof that GT4 favors the dualshock w/ all the assist it gives the driver. You'd think they'd make the wheel work better than the controller just so they'd sell more wheels. :?:

So just to clarify, you guys are adjusting the weight and power in arcade mode right? Is it easy to find these handicap settings?

If the game without a doubt was better with the wheel I think it might hurt sales, of the game, because everyone has a controller but not everyone will spring for a wheel.

I don't think that's necesarily true. Does the fact that the STI is faster than the WRX hurt overall Impreza sales?

That's only true for the people racing other people like in this challenge.

Besides... the game *is* without a doubt "better" with a wheel. It's way more fun. I'm just not sure that the wheel isn't a handicap. I'm not saying Nick's not a good driver, but I think the best I could do is within about 1 second of him. There's just no place to pick up that much time.

Also, if they sold half as many games, but every game sold with a wheel, I bet they'd make more money... the wheels' are like $150+, and probably cost like $30 to manufacture, if that.

So you guys are fuckin with the cars shit in arcade mode then? 1.24 doesn't seem that hard esp. if you do that. I was just using RSS tires.

I see no way of comparing a video game dynamic to specific auto industry sales.

I don't think the option to buy a wheel in game correlates with the process of spending $6,000 more in a car purchase.

I'd guess we would have to weigh the R&D for the two. The manufacturing costs must be higher for the wheel than the dvd the game is written on.

Maybe the best marketing would have been buy this wheel and get the game for free? It might cheapen the image of the game to throw it is as a free gift.

I was thinking of the fact that you can buy the game by itself and use the standard equipment or you can fork out extra to get the game with a wheel. If the addition of the wheel gave consumers a slight time advantage over those who only bought the game by itself, I don't think that would hurt GT4 sales...just like I don't think the availability of the faster/more expensive Impreza (STI) hurts overall Impreza sales...I know it's not a perfect analogy.

I think we should all leave the cars alone or all agree on an exact same setup. Just changing the tires to RSS from RH gains an easy 1.5 seconds for me.

I didn't check the sector times. I'll take a pic this weekend. For it to be a fair challange let's leave it at the stock car you get in arcarde mode with RSS tires.

Well, like I said, if the wheel costs (let's bump it up from my 1st guess to make the math easier) $50 to manufacture, package, and sell at $150, they make $100 per wheel. The game sells for $50, and probably costs $5 to manufacture, package, and sell (not counting the original programming costs which were in the millions).

Now let's assume they sold 2 million copies of the game, plus say 10% of the people that bought the game also bought the wheel, that's $90M + $20M = $110M.

Now let's say they bundle the game and wheel for $200, but only sell have as many games because of the high cost. That's $45M + $100M = $145M.

But that's really not the point. My point is that the game should be beat-able with either controller. But from a marketing perspective, if the car is faster with a wheel, you can sell more wheels because anyone that's going to run in a GT4 league will have to buy one to be competative. However, the GT4 programmers put a lot of code in there to assist the the dualshock. My guess is they were being philanthropic and trying to make sure no one has an advantage for the online play (which later got canned from GT4). The result is that a great driver w/ a dualshock runs faster lap times than a great driver with a wheel.

Of course, that all depends on the results of Nick's next attempt with his wheel. If he's able to match his dualshock times, then I'll agree that all of the above is bunk. However, I think I'm pretty damn good w/ a wheel on GT4 (I totally suck w/ a controller), and I don't think there's another 2 seconds per lap in this challenge to pick up. Sure there's a tenth here or there, maybe a total of 1 second, but not 2 seconds. So either Nick's just fucking superman at GT4 (which certainly is a possiblity and why I'd love to see an in-car video of his lap) or there's an inherrant advantage that comes from the dualshock assist.

So Nick, for posterity, we need you to match those 1'25's with the wheel! And record your laps man, setup your digi-cam on video mode and record a reply of your best lap to show us how you did it!

The problem with "leave it alone" is that we can't police it. Arcade mode is already *very* limited on the setup changes... if everyone adds max HP and reduces to min weight (which I'm sure everyone will do) then we will be exactly the same, unless someone want's a slightly different gear ratio, or harder tires for some reason.

Frankly, I'd much rather run "open" events in simulation mode where we have access to all the settings changes, but then it stops being a "single car challenge" and becomes a whole lot more like real racing where setup, tires, and machine condition are important. If we really want to run driver-vs-driver challenges, we have to stick to arcade mode... and if that's the case, we might as well allow people to do anything arcade mode allows, since we'll all be doing the same stuff: +20% hp, -10% weight, RSS/RSS tires, and gearing to match the track. To me that's the most policeable and fair... the only difference is that people will be running a bit faster than the defaults.

Well alrighty then, let's max these things out. I used to be faster with the wheel, but I haven't used it in a while. Since Saturday looks to be one of those stuck in the house days, Bayley and I will spend a couple hours on the Laguna track.

Since we are modifying the car so much, why not just do these in sim mode since we have access to so many more settings and tracks configurations?

Does anyone know of any track where RSS tires don't give you a better time if you are not using the tire damage mode?

Sperry, you forgot that DFP is manufactured by Logitech, so Sony might only see a small licensing fee for from them for every sale of the DFP.

The DS2 vs DFP issue has been beaten to death on other forums like gtplanet.net, its just a personal preference, I don't believe in one being better than the other. People post fast times w/ DS2, then someone beat it with DFP, and vice versa.

Anyway, I agree w/ douleurx, just leave the arcade car alone, I mean, do you really need to police it, I think the whole photo thing is kind of excessive already. If someone wants to cheat, go ahead, there's no prize or anything.

Good point. I've never really tried comparing the wheel to the controller since I plain old hate driving w/ a controller. I'm not on the GT forums, but I imagine this debate has been covered ad infinitum.

As far as the settings, there's only 4 of 'em, and they're not really "tuning" the car, they're just for handicapping the cars for network racing. I figure why not take the settings out of the equation... sure this is already all on the honor system, but why not just allow the changes so there's no doubt? Besides, a faster car is more fun to drive anyway.

And finally, Nick, you mean Sears Point, not Laguna right? If you're running laps at Seca, that might explain how you're 2 seconds faster than everyone else. :lol:

Let post 2 times, one for default w/ ss tires and another with all setting allowed. I'm sure the fast guy will always fast does not matter what car he drive.

I'm for both. Lets have an semi-open race with some loose constraints like subaru only or a cap on dollar amount. Drive it however the game lets you (shortcuts and swinging from vines over the crockodiles is OK).
Then lets also have a totally locked down driver competition. (eg... license events)

I'd rather not take the time to run the track two ways... when you change the power and the gearing, it's not just a matter of driving it twice, my shift points and braking zones all move around.

I think we make it as simple as possible: arcade mode, a track, a car, and anything goes (just remember cutting and wall riding is for pussies :P).

Jeez, do you guys overcomplicate everything this way? :P

I added a rule to the "Current Challenge" (in bold). Are we all in agreement?

*Everyone nods*

Okay good. :D

I'm still waiting to find out that doubleurx was driving Seca instead of Sears Point so I know that I've got a prayer of matching his times. :lol:

It sure breaks up a boring day.

I would think the marginal profit on the wheels is much less than $100, that seems high. Of course I have no evidence of that, but this is cool.

http://ir.logitech.com/financialhist...agesect=Prod05

So if we could break down the results in this statement to reflect only the GT4 driving wheel by quarter that would be sweet. Im sure we could find GT4 sales for those quarters. A nice overlay graph with a regression, and we would have a very crude and terrible data analysis..

If I was still in school I would almost care.

I should just go run some laps it would be much more fun.

I wish you would. :P

Yes I meant Infineon.............NOT

Man I am getting old and here I thought I had you guys by 2 seconds!

Too f'n funny!

Wait... you were running Seca?!!! :eek: :lol: Oh my god, that's *killing* me!!

At least my faith in the Logitech wheel has been restored. :lol:

He was running Sears/ Infineon? Nick you are my new favorite person, that is the funniest thing I've read today! :lol:

He was running Seca, not Sears like he shoulda.

Oh, I'm confused, but not entirely confused..Now I see. Keep on Keepin on.

Okay, here's my best lap for tonight with the new rules.

FYI, I'm running max power and min weight of course, and -2 steps on the gearing so I top out 6th. It changes the shift points from the default, so it took a little getting used to.

So, I'm at 1'23.396 but I'm pretty sure I can get into the 1'22's if I could just drive a lap without at least one "big" mistake. Hell, one lap I was up .5s from this time but blew it in the last 2 corners... :(

My Brain!

I went home that night for some reason thinking it was Seca. It did surpirse me that in less than an hour I could get 2 seconds on you guys. I only got a couple runs on Infineon which I rarely play on, but was able to get a 127.8XX with the stock car.

I can see it at the next track day. Me standing at RFR listening to a bunch of crickets. Meanwhile you guys standing in the Thunderhill paddock - "wasn't Nick supposed to be here today".