Thanks. That's what I figured but thought there might be more to it.

It is like crack.

Eh, that article is making a big deal out of something that's been happening for a long time. Yes, many people turned their noses at the $500-$600 price tag, but the launch was not as "troubled" as everyone makes it out to be.

It's a given these days that a company will lose money on hardware for a certain amount of time - in fact, they plan on it. It's always played against the money they will make on other items, such as accessories, games, online fees, licensing fees from other publishers, etc.

Generally the system itself will not garner the manufacturer any money until right towards the end of its life-cycle, if at all. As the hardware becomes cheaper to produce, they will drop the retail price in order to entice more purchases, thus making them even more money off of the aforementioned add-ons. This will continue past a console's initial lifespan and part-way in to the next generation.

For Sony and the PS3 this is incredibly crucial as the system is not only carrying their next generation of game software, but is also essentially running as their Blu-ray flagship and their foray in to selling a proposed "multimedia centerpiece." The retail price is actually quite generous vs. their manufacturing costs, and if the system is able to successfully launch their new DVD format, any losses they take on the system will be more than made up for in the long term. It's a gamble, to be sure: their UMD movie format, for example, did not exactly take off running. Fortunately for Sony, they already have two incredibly popular system lifecycles under their belt, and given their huge fanbase, this may turn out to be the right time to take this type of plunge. It just may take a while to resurface. :P

In short, larger installed user-base = mo' money. So they're willing to take a relatively minor loss on the hardware almost perpetually.

I agree with what you're saying, but I think in the short term Sony's learning a lesson: hardware specs don't sell the system, the games do. Look at the Wii... the lower entry price coupled with the awesome library of fun games and the new interface that brings non-gamers to the system means the Wii's are still flying off the shelves.

Sony may eventually make money off the deal, but Nintendo is already raking it in now.

And the blu-ray drive on the PS3 is the biggest problem with the system. Sure, it was a bid to lock people into the Sony standard, but they really could have just sold the system for $300-$400 with the drive as a $300 option and lost less money on the system, while selling a ton more units to expand their sales base for games. Having the blu-ray drive isn't going to make the format widely accepted because people simply aren't buying the PS3 in large enough quantities for it to make a difference. Everyone's waiting for the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray combo players to come out, simply because no one wants to pick a standard, nor do regular people like to watch moves on their gaming consoles.

We'll see how it turns out. . . in the meantime, I won't be buying a PS3. :lol:

I'll have to take a look but the old wheel might work on the ps3...

if the drive was seperate the developers couldn't be sure what hardware was there. That's one of the major advantages of consoles over PCs. Metal Gear Solid is rumored to use the 50GB format BD.

my little brother has a PS3 and it really isnt as cool as everyone says. just like scott said there really arent that many interesting games and a few the graphics are so good i get motion sick playing them WTF?

With the graphics capabilities a racing game w/ a nice force feedback wheel would be intense but still uber expensive.

sparknotes: its cool but not $600 worth of cool.

Microsoft didn't seem to have a problem offering the HD-DVD drive as an option for the XBox 360.

And if Sony sold a bunch of machines w/o the Blu-Ray then released an awesome game that required it, they'd probably sell a ton of Blu-Ray upgrade drives as well. Anyone else remember how the original Myst game sold millions of CD-ROM drives for PC's?

Some developers are already lamenting the loss of the HD-DVD drive on the xbox360. A few were originally planning on having the huge capacity on one disk and are now going to have to split them up onto multiple DVDs. Its not the end of the world, but now that the machines can display incredibly detailed high-res graphics, the resource files are getting larger than can fit onto one DVD. And as far as I know, the publishers don't want multiple versions of their products shipping and they aren't yet willing (or allowed) to make the games HD-DVD only.

I wouldn't waste my money. Just as I haven't wasted my money on an HD-DVD drive... I'd be happier if they did what you said in the post before, not included the Blu Ray and made the system affordable.

But in a year or two, the cost of producing HD-DVD drives will be 10 times cheaper. Remember when a DVD player cost $800? Only 3 years later you could pick one up at WalMart for $39.95. I expect the same thing to occur for the new generation drives, and then MS can sell their add-on for a profit and drive the sales of that add-on by letting game programmers release HD-only games.

Right, but developers won't be producing xb360 games on hd-dvd - Microsoft won't allow it, because they know that suddenly requiring people to drop $200 on an add-on to play new games is a huge mistake. This is the lesson learned from the failed Sega CD and 32x: while some people may buy it, you've just alienated most of your userbase. So the devs are stuck with standard dvd. I also think that the data transfer rate on the hd-dvd drive would turn out to be restrictive - loading time may be too unbearable for hd-dvd games to really be possible. It's possible that this may change, but not any time soon. By the time hd-dvd is cheap enough for them to try to make that leap, they will have a new system ready for release (MS is holding itself to a very strict 4-year hardware lifecycle). It's most likely that hd-dvd games won't be seen until the next generation.

The larger capacity format that you get by default on the PS3 is one of Sony's big draws for devs. Of course, this is part of the gamble because the higher price point deters people from purchasing the system, which in turn deters publishers from wanting to produce exclusively on PS3.

For example, Capcom has decided to make Devil May Cry a multi-platform title - a pretty big loss for Sony. However, it's looking like other directors, such as Tomonobu Itagaki (Team Ninja) and Hideo Kojima (Konami), are quite enamored with the larger capacity: Ninja Gaiden Sigma is currently exclusive to the PS3, and judging by comments from Kojima regarding the Blu-ray disc capacity, it's still looking like MGS4 will remain exclusive.

My STi in its current (mostly stock - I've only had the game for an evening) incarnation. Photo upload rocks. :D

Your photo just says "Forza 2"

Fixed.

Looks pretty cool... I really don't want to have to get an XB360... tell me what sucks about it, quick!

Why does it look so jagged? No anti-aliasing? That's what that is right? I'm really having a hard time not buying this game.

It... uh ... will look absolutely awful on your 52" TV in 1080p.

56". :p Don't short me 4" man!

it's a 720p shot with no anti-aliasing.

The game looks great at 1080i, though. :)

Scott, I can't really come up with a reason for you to not buy it. . . the racing is better than gt4, but the gameplay (extras, interface, etc.) are not. So it's kind of a toss-up. It is hands down one of the best racing sims available, though. The detail that they put in to the physics is pretty incredible.

Erm. . . it doesn't have any bugeyes. Subaru list: B4 Legacy GT 2.0, 04 STi, 06 STI, 22b, Tommy Kaira M20b, Cusco Advan Impreza. :P

It was kinda funny: my first hour with the game was a total nightmare, because I've gotten so used to the way AWD handles. . .

I picked an RX-7 as my starting car. Me and RWD don't really mix well. :lol:

I'm willing to bet it's not as good as rFactor or GTR2 in the physics department. At least if it's at all like Forza 1, which wasn't even on par w/ GT4 IMO... at least I played Forza 1 for a few minutes, then got all pissed of at how bad it was and went back to GT4 and have yet to go back to Forza.

The biggest problem with forza 2 is that it is not GT4...

Dang I bet it will look SWEET on my 27" CRT.

Same here. I didn't really care for the first Forza over GT4 either, but 2 is a real improvement. I know that "rendering physics at 360fps" is the buzz-phrase that they're using to advertise, but it really does make a difference.

GT4 always seemed a little too "mathematical" to me, in that as long as you had a good car setup and took the right line, things like road surface, elevation changes, and car balance (weight transfer, etc.) never really seemed to have a big impact. I've never driven the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, but I have seen in-car footage, and GT4 never really seemed to recreate the drop very well. Forza 2 is simply able to calculate more of the variables that go in to car handling, and I think it ends up feeling more realistic as a result.

Basing the game vs. my own (admittedly limited) experience, my STi in-game handles the way I expect it to - which is to say, similar to my own RS (no flames, please :lol: ). The expected nuances of driving an AWD vehicle are all there, and enhanced vs. a game like GT4 due to the way the game handles the sprung mass of the car over independent drive wheels and suspension on the road surfaces. The car just feels more recognizable and dynamic than it does in GT4, where it would feel more or less stapled to the road. In fact, my first verbalized comment on the Forza 2 demo as I was part-way around the track in the Legacy GT, understeering like mad on stock suspension, alignment, and tires, was something along the lines of, "christ, it's just like driving my own car stock."

I suppose it's like when artists find that in order to make drawn, painted, or CG eyes look lifelike, they have to add the reflection. No matter how well they are created, eyes with no reflection look lifeless. When I compare GT4 with Forza 2, GT4 just seems to be missing the reflection. :nerd:

I think the cars are too shiney and I did notice the lack of anti-aliasing (only on the cars).

I haven't played it. Or even seen it in person so it may look different while in motion.

It needs more cars, if I can't race a prius then whats the point!

Yeah, I wouldn't mind having an RS to swap like in the first.

So I have a few little nit-picks now, most relating to upgrades. . .

1) Apparently Prodrive does not exist in the world of Forza. No wheels, exhaust, suspension, anything. Granted, most of Prodrive's branded items are manufactured by other companies such as OZ and Bilstein (both of which are in the game), but if the product was made to Prodrive specs, it's not included. For example, you can find Prodrive's wheels in GT4 by looking under the name of the company they were actually manufactured by. Not so in Forza 2. I don't even get a Prodrive decal. :(

2) Many of the upgrades, while more in-depth than in GT4, come off feeling a little generic when you are familiar with your car. The only suspension upgrades for an STi are made by Tein. The only engine management available is made by AEM ( :?: ). Your exhaust, whether a simple catback or full race, is made by HKS. And a few of the names with which I see myself upgrading my car I would generally not choose to use in real life. I know it would require an incredible amount of research (and that licensing also comes in to play here), but someday I'd like to see a racing game where you have to weigh the pros and cons of going with a set of Tein coilovers vs. DMS or Ohlins.

Furthermore, the results of some upgrades are too generic. For example, intake and exhaust upgrades net you a simple top end gain rather than altering your powerband or losing you low-end torque.

I'm sure all the kids who fancy themselves street racers are having the time of their lives seeing brands they know in the game, but I would like some more realism off the virtual track as well as on.

3) Tire sizes are too limited. I have the choice to change the tire profile on my STi from 225/45-17 to 235/45-17. This hurts my acceleration a smidge. Why am I not allowed 235/40-17? Granted, this is a feature that GT4 did not have at all, but still. . .

4) I cannot install a FMIC on my STi, therefore there are no aftermarket STi hoods. Furthermore, the only aftermarket wing available so far is a GT4-lookalike aluminum staple-on. And most of the body kits are crazy ugly. So I can paint my car crazy colors but in the long run it's just gonna be another STi with a Chargespeed body kit.

5) You're not allowed to change your alignment at all until you have the final, fully-adjustable coilover upgrade. Bitch, I have basic springs on my real car and was able to get myself a better alignment than you're giving me! Don't tell me I'm stuck with stock camber! :lol:

I think what I need is for someone to make an Impreza simulator. :D

I already have a 100% realistic Impreza simulator in my garage. What I want is a game where I can drive other cars and trust it's realistic.

Take your wallet and set it on fire. When it finishes burning, gather up the ashes and flush them down the toilet. Congratulations on your new impreza simulator!

I'm gonna open an amusement park ride that does that. It'll be called the "sperry experience".

Welp, I'm super happy that the shitass AI from the first Forza remains. It's like I'm not even there, the AI cars just stick to their exact line and if you are in their way, too bad!

FCK@#%6kj7k!

Rubbins Racing boy.

See, Forza doesn't even have a virtual wallet. :mad: That's what I want. I want all that in a game.

:P

:idea: :lol:

I got to level 10 in Forza 2 then got bored with it, I'm just not into video games anymore.

agreed :P

I spent an hour screwing around with decals and rims. I'm such a ricer.

Dude wheels are the first thing I do to my cars usually. It's a game who cares!

Also, I'm seeing what you mean by the menus. They aren't very user friendly. I was also hoping the decals would have a better interface. Being able to group letters together to form a word so you could move that all at once would be nice. Applying designs is still VERY time consuming.

Ooh, the Fallout 3 trailer came out today. But, we've still got a long way to go. Fall 2008 release date.


Full definition trailer:
http://fallout.bethsoft.com/

Low-res youtube style trailer:
http://kotaku.com/gaming/clips/fallo...autoplay=false

I have a hard time "feeling" what the cars are doing when I "race" them in the game. And because of that I have a hard time adjusting the suspension accordingly. Using a controller and thumbsticks doesn't exactly yield the most fluid movements so I don't know if it's me fucking up a corner or the suspension being too hard/soft.

You can group layers together by holding down the thumbstick for the advanced menu and selecting the ones you want to group. :P


Tomb Raider Anniversary is out tomorrow. I'm probably alone in my anticipation of replaying the original TR on the Legend engine. . . :oops:

NO WAY!

@ layer grouping or tomb raider :?:

Layer grouping. What's funny is all you have to do is press A and I never even READ the text next to that until you said that. Yeah I'm dumb.

BUT I played it on a 62" HD last night and it looked 1000 times better than my stupid CRT. Yes I know that's obvious, but the difference between the two on this game is much larger than other games.

Oh baby.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...sunocoe462.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1.../sunocoe46.jpg

johnnys a ricer. :D

with that said i really considered buying a 360 for forza 2 and halo 3 but i cant quite bring myself to do it becasue then i would have to buy a wheel as well :lol:

who wants to let me test it out? !Thumbs Up

My RACEcar is rice!? =(

just kidding johnny its pretty sweet actually.

whats the deal man i havent seen you in like 2 months?