Where to get Motul?
 

No, I didn't do a search...but where have you guys been ordering your motul brake fluid? Its time to change my brake fluid..anyone interested in going in on a case?

Re: Where to get Motul?
 

I usually order it by the bottle direct from StopTech (www.stoptech.com) when I'm ordering pads. I don't know if they sell it by the case there. I'm in on half a case if you wanna split one!

Edit: looks like you can get it by the case there:

They also have Super Blue... which might be a little more cost effective.

Kevin's run the super blue and liked it, but I believe he was going to give Motul a shot his next change...

So:

3 liters of Motul for $75/ea
or
5 liters of ATE Super Blue for $50/ea

I'm in for either!

Oh, and before Dean jumps in and mentions it...

For like $2.50 / bottle you can go by the Ford dealership and get theit DOT3 HP fluid. It's dirt cheap and performs well out of the bottle... however, I've noticed that a single autoX will kill it... I just flushed mine w/ the FR450 (I think that's what it's called) before Hawthorne, and I really could have used another bleed before last weekend's event. :( The Motul on the other hand seemed to last many events, and only require the occational bleed, instead of a full-on flushing. (But it *still* costs more! :lol:)

I'm running the SuperBlue, and no complaints whatsoever. But I came across a page on cc.com showing wet and dry boiling points for all the major synthetic brake fluids, and I'm actually going to try the Castrol stuff next. Motul is *almost* as good, but costs a lot.

Edit: The weakness (as far as I'm concerned anyway) of the Ford stuff is its pitiful wet boiling point. That's why you have to flush it so often. The first time you beat on it when it's fresh though, it's probably as good as anything else. Personally I'd pay the extra to get that much more life (and more peace of mind on the street).

Got a linky? I haven't heard anything about Castrol's brake fluid.

I was working on it. :P

Upon further review.... nevermind! Castrol SRF is like $65+ per LITER!!!!1!!1!1!!! I will indeed be switching to Motul RBF next flush.

:shock: :lol:

You're right about the Ford stuff.... it's great out of the bottle, but fades quickly as it gets wet... you'd think in dry-ass-hell Reno it'd last longer than is does, but alas, I constantly feel like it's time to bleed the brakes with that stuff in there. Hell, it's only 6deg away from haveing to be considered a DOT 2 fluid!

The Super Blue's wet point is actually 100deg higher than the Fords! :shock:

And with the Motul, I find that I overheat and fade my pads before I boil the fluid. :twisted: But it's pricey... not Castrol SRF pricey, but you still feel it in the pocket book.

I'm in for whats required? If that means bigger group buy or more splits to a case for cheaper price? how long sould break pads last? might need some new pads soon also :shock: 21K miles :shock:

All in know is my brakes need the fluid swapped, they are a bit too soft. The hardware's fine, they still stop great, but I can feel a bit too much sponginess to them...

So then.... we getting some fluid?

A case of ATE Super Blue is $100 from StopTech, anyone in on it with me, or know a cheaper place?

I know, I'll get a case then sell 1lt bottles to you fools for $10/each. :lol:

I'm still in for some. I also would like to know if we can do a "mini tech day" to make sure all us noobies will be ready for the track day! I dont want to get there to be told I cant drive because I dont know how to check wear on the break pads :lol: :D

I suck and have not ordered anything, I will take care of that next week though. Good idea on the tech day though...we'll set that up

Well, I need to order some rear brake pads for my car as well, want me to order the case of fluid too? We might save a little bit on shipping.

I'm just thinking that we should be able to find a case of ATE for less than $100 if we don't order from StopTech.

Sounds good, I have that one catalog that had the fluid for cheap, I think they had a website...I'll get that tonight...

sounds good just let me know what I need and how much. Also is it good to install bleeders at the same time to save time in the future? Matt how hard is it to bleed the brakes in are cars?

Cool, lemme know if they sell Axxis Ultimate pads too! So far, StopTech seems to have good prices on pads, but I'd guess the fluid can be found for cheaper since I've seen other places sell the 1L bottles for less, just not the cases.

Guys, I have the hookup at Stoptech. If we get together and figure out exactly what we want I can save us some money. I already need to order pads and rotors all around for my car, and I'm actually going to switch to Motul RBF this time if any of you guys are interested.

I really like the Motul... best pedal feel evAr as far as all the fluids I've tried.

However, I've heard that the ATE is one of the best as far as resisting water seepage, while the Motul is very hydroscopic (though that's countered by it's very high wet boiling point). Plus the ATE is supposed to be almost as good as the Motul, and costs like half as much. So I figure it's gotta be the best bang for the buck.

Oh, and since they make the ATE in two colors (Super Blue and the 200 which is gold like the rest), you can do a complete system flush and be sure you got it all!

So Kevin, if you've got the hookup, I need a case of the ATE Super Blue (which I'll be happy to share at cost with anyone else that wants some), and two sets of rear Axxis Ultimates for an 02 WRX Sedan. And if your hook up is really that good, grab me a StopTech BBK for my car, red please! ;)

I'm about to order pads and slotted rotors all around for my car, and I can get in on a case of Ate Type 200 if you aren't set on the blue stuff Scott, since I already have blue in my car. So far that makes 4 rotors, 4 sets of pads... who wants what else?

Crap, I wanted the blue stuff so I can flush mine. Ask 'em if they'd be willing to put a case of 5 blue and 5 gold together? It's all the same price IIRC.

And I just need two sets of rear 02 WRX Axxis Ultimates pads.

And I'm not kidding about the BBK, what kinda deal can you get on 'em? If you can get 'em at a significant discount, I'd love to have 'em on the car for the track day! :twisted: Unless Dean will sell me Egan's, since he doesn't seem to be in any rush to put them on his car.

I'm still in on the fluid! How much do I need? Blue would also be cool for me because I'm sure the stock stuff is gold.

Me too, I need fluid...I'll be happy with either one Scott.

One case is 10 liter bottles. 1 liter is plenty flush a car, but since it comes in metal cans, it'll last for a long-ass time on the shelf, I'd suggest 2 liters, one blue and one gold (assuming Kevin can get a split case), and you'll be set for you next two changes!

Sounds great Scott thx for the info. Now I can say it - "put me down for 2 liters please"

ohh yah any word on some bleeders? who? what? where? when?

Oakos Automotive is the place to go for speed bleeders. And the best time to do them is when you are flushing brakes, obviously. :P

I got "speedbleeders"... I don't remember where I got 'em from... and I don't know what size the STi Brembos take...

If we can't split a case, should we just get 2? I assume that each of us is goign for 2 cans, which solves the blue/gold dilemma. And it wouldn't be too hard to sell the extra 5 pairs at an autocross for $20.

The Brembos are different, but Oakos has those in stock. That's where Egan got his from, for both of his subarus. 4 pots are different too. :) And guess where I got mine? ;)

ATE is great stuff, it was all I ran/run in the A4...

The Damn metal cans are to big though. You really need twp people who want to flucsh their systems at the same time to need a full one, and like every other type, they are mostly uselesss after they are open, except as maybe clutch fluid for my F150...

The Stealth and WRX are getting Ford Heavy Duty though since I flush them so often. Very much cheaper than even the ATE. I did really like changing colors though...

Again, if you have a can or bottle of brake fluid that has had the seal broke, for more than a day or so, assume it is junk...

No kidding... worst case scenario, I'll just buy all the left over cans and sell 'em to SECCS members in the future... or if you're moving up here Kevin, you can keep 'em in Matt's garage and sell 'em yourself! ;)

I have to disagree. If you use say, .5L to completely flush your system, and then cap the rest off. You should be okay to use the rest for bleeding the brakes a few times.

Since the older fluid will only be used to top off as you bleed, it won't really be in the lines. I'd guess that you could flush your system, then use the rest for 3 or 4 pre-autoX bleeds w/o drastically reducing the stiffness of the pedal.

Plus that ATE stuff is suppost to be one of the best at resisting water.

Do we have an Oakos Automotive in Reno?

http://oakos.com
Sti brakes section

;)

Started an "official" group buy thread here:

http://www.seccs.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=20932#20932

Not sure it is best at rejecting moisture, only that it has one of the best wet boiling points, which is quite different.

Also, as you press and release the brake, fluid is mixed, and also, hot fluid in the calipers has some circulation due to convection.

Either way, any moisture you can avoid putting in the system is good.

If you have a a 1l bottle 1/2 full, and you seal the cap when it is say 20% humidity, the brake fluid will absorb close to 100% of that moisture in the empty .5l of the can no matter what brand Dot 3-4 fluid. I think tha is relative humidity, even though they don't say so. So I'm not sure how much water that is, but it is some, and every time you open the bottle, more moisture gets in to be sucked into the fluid...

I won't use an open bottle of fluid for anything but the F150 clutch that has a leaking slave cylinder that is impossible to get to...

If you are going to the trouble to bleed them, why not pump a whole new bottle of Ford HD into the system for I think $4-6

Thanks Kevin!!1 got a set ordered :D Now get that fluid :P 8)

I hear what your saying.

Because you need to do it before and after every AutoX. :(

[quote="sperry"]I don't do it that often. Before track days, even between back to back track days occasoinally, and every couple weeekends of autocross, or because I'm swapping pads...

Like I said, ATE is great stuff, and I'm not discouraging anyone from buying it. I am only making a reccomendation that you do two cars at once, so you mostly kill a bottle because it only has questionable usefulness once it is open.

IMHO you can't boil fluid at an autocross, even with 7 runs and morning and afternoon run groups. There just isn't enough delta V to generate the heat required. Even at HPDE type events it is tough. It is far more likely in both cases to have brake fade due to pad material overheating, residue deposit on the rotors, glazed rotors or air in the system IMHO.

Scott, lets shoot your infrared pyrometer at the back side of some calipers at the nesxt autocross and see...

Also, A freind helping is better than speedbleeders any day as they rely on a less than perfect seal between bleader and caliper to prevent air during recoil... Every time you use them, that seal gets worse and worse, increasing the likelyhood of air entering the system which is 10 times worse than water...

[quote="Dean"]I'm not disagreeing with your points. I've just noticed that after an event the Ford stuff leaves my pedal feeling spongy. It's not that I believe I'm boiling the fluid at an autoX, it's that the fluid saps water so quick that I boil the water in the fluid leaving gas in the fluid, hence the spongy fluid. If I fully flush the system before an AutoX, it's usually pretty good right after... but if the fluid's a few weeks old, an AutoX will sponge-ify my pedal.

Plus, I'm probably a bit hyper-sensative to the sponge pedal because I have big feet. If my brake pedal pushes down even just a tiny bit more than usual, I end up stomping on the gas. When the pedal is soft, I'll notice that I'm sitting at a stop sign, and my motor is idling at 1000rpm because I can't keep my heel of the gas w/o shifting my leg left to totally clear the pedal. This happened with the Motul, but it usually took months and several AutoXs first.

I've always said, I want a brake pedal that has zero travel... just a solid bar to push on that slows the car the harder I push. So while the Ford stuff works great brand new, I've found that I need to flush the whole thing too often to keep my pedal feeling the way I like it. Even with all the flushing, it's still cheaper than the Motul (which is why I'm giving the ATE a shot) but the hassle isn't worth it to me.

In short: the Ford stuff is a lot of bang for the buck, as long as you're willing to put in the work of flushing before every event, or if you're not as sensative to a spongy pedal as I am.

Scott, you might want to think twice about the BBK then. The extra piston size will cause the pedal to be a bit softer. I've noticed it with just my 4 pots, and I *think* my master cylinder piston is the same size as the WRX one, but not positive.

I was worried about this too, but everyone says the BBK is correctly balanced to the WRX master cylinder and rear brakes so the pedal is actually very easy to modulate and feels great.

And if it's not.... then I'll look into adjusting the pedal and or a single stage brake booster out of a Ledacy Turbo (since that's the real culprit).

Actually.... I wonder what happens if you disconnect the vacuum lines that go to the brake booster. :twisted: My legs are pretty strong... I wonder it I'd still be able to get the car to the tire's limits w/o power assist. :lol:

Oh, don't worry about that; brake bias and pedal feel will still be great. But you will have to push the pedal a bit farther to achieve a given pressure than you do now. It may or may not be significant enough to cause problems for you, bigfoot. :P

Oh, if that's all your talking about I'll just adjust the pedal. And by adjust, I mean I'll take it out and bend it up 1/2 an inch if necessary. :lol:

Nice!

Actually, the Stoptech kit has a smaller front piston area than stock, so it should actually require less distance to create the same pressure. This effecively shifts 10% bias to the rear which the WRX is in need of.

You can read about this ad nausium in the Gary puts Dean in his place, I mean brake thread burried somewhere around here... I'd search, but don't really want to find it. :oops:

:lol: I've blocked out much of that thread... except for the part where I remember all of us getting owned. :lol:

All I remember is that after all that discussion, and all the other reading around I did, the StopTech kit was the one I wanted: it's specifically designed for the WRX, and to work with the WRX rear/master cylinger/brake booster, and it's well race tested. Plus it's not as expensive as many other kits. :)

Oakos is a guy (kid) in MI. I've met him he's a nice guy.

A lot of the track whores in MI run Valvoline Syn fluid and say it's basically equivalent to ATE. It's what I'm running but of course I don't track my car. :P

Scott, that is weird to me that you had more problems using the Ford HD brake fluid.

In my experience in 02-03, I had my car on 4 tracks, probably 1000 track miles, + 20 autocrosses, and I think we changed the brake fluid maybe 2x. Using the EBC greens front & back. (Right Dean?)
I had one instance in that entire time where the pedal felt spongy, I had the brakes bled, and all was back to normal after that.

Could it be that your brake system is aging, and hoses have expanded and contracted so many times that, like a balloon, now the contracted size is no longer original diameter, thereby allowing something extra in the system after a day of autocrossing?

I also wonder if the force used to brake varies by individual, affects wear long-term? That is, I press the brakes to stop but I don't stomp on it -- whereas I've seen other people stomp on their brakes in order to stop on a dime -- is this more wearing on a brake system?