Rally Cross is Back!!!
 

August 18th Thunder Rally Cross!

Time to Really use that Famed AWD System of our beloved subarus in a setting where it belongs!!! :cool:

Info Here :

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...ght=rallycross

So whos down ? :rolleyes: Me and Ansel?

If I magically get my L running properly in time, I could make it.

damn.... if I only had my old suspension, and a set of rally tires id be all over it like a fat kid on pudding

Rally tires? You didn't need Hoosiers to come out and autocross did you? ;)

no, but i dont want to take my azenis out and chew em up

No winter tires?

The dirt doesn't have enough Grip to Chew up your tires. they plow it with a Tractor.

the risk of suspension damage to a car is ~~ the same as Driving down a snowy reno/carson or tahoe road (actually the snowy tahoe roads are usually much worse than the RallyX surface)

I really can't ever figure out why more Seccs members won't do these events. Often the dates over lap AutoX events, and it makes sense that they would skip them. But there are enough events that don't over lap. And yes your car will throw dirt onto it self and that does tend to dull and in some rare cases chip your paint. So if you are obsessed with a show car finish, then its not for you.

Maybe Derick will come out seeing how he has Mud Flaps !!! :)

I Know Cody has done a 70 mile Dirt drive. Come out on and RallyX !!!!

Watch my car carefully and see how little is Bounces.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnLE9P9-dAg
SMOOTH SURFACE!!

The squaw AutoCross site was MUCH MUCH rougher and worse on suspension than these rally crosses. (The Antioch Site was actually pretty rough, i'de say on par with squaws pavement) However dirt is softer than pavement . You could get away with an STI that's been lowered a full Inch and probably wouldn't hit anything. I've never bottomed out, or tagged my front end. (Again watch the video) The speeds are much slower than at some of our higher speed AutoX's (I've never used 3rd, or even hit the rev limiter in 2nd)
WRX's have 6" of ride height, where as an STI has 4. (and the RS has 5)
I think Cory's subaru is about the most slammed i've seen , but its on very stiff suspension and also wouldn't have any problems.

I've seen a fair amount of Guys on RE070's and a few guys show up on 18's (Love how some peeps won't let tires or rims get in the way of a good time on dirt)

I **think** it comes down to these guys not wanting to throw dirt on their paint..

That or they don't want to show up to an event where i'll actually put a whooping down on them :lol:

The first few seconds of this video the color is messed up, but its a higher quality video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb_vJ...e=user&search=

LOTS of dirt getting tossed around, but that's it. :)

Makes me Itching to do some dirt driving. I wish i could find dirt roads as smooth as the RallyX site around Carson and Reno. I have found one almost as smooth just a lil south of Carson called Pin Nuts. and Sunset pass at the end of Johnson Lane Isn't bad long stretches that are really smooth. although there are a couple sections of washboard that are just murderous (like suspension wear, rim denting bad) :|

Lucky Boy pass just 1 mile south of Hawthorne has been the smoothest dirt road i've ever driven on in my life. and its wicked Curvy. A mini pikes peak. ... I still dream of that road...

You don't happen to have any in-car stuff, do you?

The main deterrent for me is the location. AutoX is 2 miles from my house. Tempting though.

Generally, it's a number of possible factors. Other commitments, budget constraints, car down for maintenance/repair/upgrade, too far to drive (Thunder Hill is a tank of gas, a hotel room night, eating out, plus wear items on the car). Speaking for myself, almost every one of those has applied on rallycross event weekends. Hell, I haven't autocrossed my own car in 5 events.

Not so much. We'll discover that for certain in October if you're up for a challenge. :twisted:

My car's actually not that low... look at MikeK's car, or Derrick's wagon.

I think most of us have put so much into making tarmac cars, taking our cars that ride on >$1,000 suspension and tossing them around on anything other than smooth tarmac is just crazy! Doesn't matter how smooth you tell me the dirt is, I'm not doing it on my coil-overs.

Coilovers FTL. :P

(MPreziv==Truth)
{
guess i just have a different perspective seeing how going to stead is a 90 minute 1/2 tank of gas trip for me, on stock bits. }

ill checkone out for sure. i have shitty paint anyways. i work on the 18th though. maybe the one after that, unless i get tyson coilovers :lol:

Alex, do a search for Pinenut Rd in gardnerville. Its the last stoplight in g-ville as you are heading southbound on 395.

I drove it like a bat out of hell lsat winter in my STi.

I've always wanted to, but my car is kinda low. If I had my Ground Controls still I'd be good.

Oh, and Rock the Bells is that day. Rage and Wu Tang > rallycross. =/

Exactly, just the other way for most of us.

If I still had stock stuff, or even my cheap ass lowering springs I rode on a few years back, I'd DEFINITELY give Rally-x a try. Just too much $ buried in that thing making it a blacktop only car. Don't wanna F something up.

Last time my car was off-road (on the JIC FLT-A2s) my driver's door lock rattled loose and fell inside the door. And that was after just a 15 minutes drive at 10 mph down a rutted dirt road. Rally is just way too harsh on equipment, and doubly so when you've got a tarmac setup on the car.

I wouldn't rally-cross unless I had a total beater or a car prepped for it. It's probably the harshest motorsport on equipment next to top-fuel drag racing. Plus, roll-overs happen at least once per season, compared to autocross where rollovers happen once per decade.

Way to close to the sale of the wagon to go ridin dirty. Much thanks for the invite.

Sperry, Rally is the harshest event by far. no question

RallyCross Is not Rally . :rolleyes:

I've also driven rutted out , wash board roads that are Crazy harsh (i think this is why my struts make wierd noises now) that's also not rally cross, nor can one use to gauge what he surface is like.

Just look at the videos i posted, and compare that to Squaws AutoX
Also note how the video i posted, looks nothing like WRC footage.. :lol:
I know you went to the Squaw even last year. don't you remember how that one kid broke off his front lip spoiler? how there were some gnarly Ups and downs?

Sorry Nick no in car videos from me. searching on youtube for Thunderhill rallycross might find some though. I could maybe try to find contact info for some of the guys who went last year. i know one of them had in car footage.

As far as i know, the only members here to ever rally cross are, Ansel and I.

Hey Ansel, which surface was harsher, T-hill RallyX site, or Squaw's autoX ??

good Call Brian, although i posted up earlier that I do drive pine nuts i just miss spelled it at "pin nuts" :LOL:

the rallycross surface is very much like driving on Pine nuts road. It is not like driving on johnson lane to sunset pass. perhaps brian could describe how rough of a ride pine nuts road is (its not rough)

This does not mean its for everyone. Not everyone wants to spin wheels and drift around in the dirt. not everyone wants to travel 2 hours and stay in a hotel. But if the sole reason a member is thinking of skipping this event, is they are worried its Mad Ruts and Rocks, then rest assured, its not. rally cross is open to 100% stock cars and they take that into consideration when designing the course.

the crappiest of CD players , would not skip while driving at the Thill site

Of course i don't know much about suspension, so maybe driving on dirt (even dirt as smooth as pavement) will cause springs to break and dampers to crack open shooting out oil. Never seen that happen, but maybe that would be the case. /sarcasm

Also BTW in the 10 rally crosses i've been to, i've never seen a roll over. I've only heard of one guy ever rolling over and it was in some Raised up truck, never heard of a sedan rolling over.

I will agree that rallycross != rally, just as autocross != road racing. But I still wouldn't try it in a car setup for tarmac. Even if it's only half as harsh as Squaw was, it's still too hard on the car. Suspension with stock travel or greater is nearly a requirement IMO. And even on really nice and smooth surfaces, there's still the issue of rock spray (I ditched my rally undertray for weight and heat reasons years ago), not to mention my car needs a nice 100 mph breeze to stay cool when it's at high rpms... no way my car would survive sliding around under boost at 5000 rpm and 20 mph.

As was mentioned before, MattR and I actually worked a bunch to try to add rallycross to Reno SCCA's lineup, but we were the only ones interested at the time, and as we learned more about what it takes to put them on, an more importantly what sort of car you need to do it regularly, we decided we'd rather focus on autocross and track, 'cause to be competitive on the track and not destroy the car in the dirt, you need two different cars.

I guess my point is simply: my car would get destroyed at a rallycross, so until I get a beater for it, count me out.

Again, the thing is, most of the people you're trying to convince are driving tarmac prepared, coilover suspension cars. Ask MikeK why he won't auto-x at Squaw anymore. The bumps up there bound up one of his coilovers. Tarmac suspension is not made for that kind of activity. Even the relatively smooth surface you speak of, is likely too harsh for what any of us want to put our setup through. Not WRC, very true, but I get pissed when I have to drive down Peckham for shit's sake! I don't know many people who'd spend $1700 on suspension and willingly take a risk at fucking it up.

this is exactly what im talking about, I put cash in the car to drive and race on tarmac. I love rally, co-drove a race when i was 18, but completely understand what my car could or couldnt take. RT-615's were not meant to be pushed through the dirt, the same with my track series coilovers.

An ice rallyX on a frozen lake would be sweet for all you guys with glass suspension. :P

I love ice racing, growing up in WI we did that all the time, tires with hex head screws and studs in them to bite the ice.

Ice Racing sounds like Fun too!

Hey Scott when was the last Rally Cross you participated in?

Have you even read the posts above this (from anyone besides Cody?)
Tarmac spec coilovers and lowered ride heights do not play well with dirt. Until you've actually ridden in a tarmac car on a bumpy dirt road (and that means something that looks smooth to the eye, not waterbars, etc) you have no idea what kind of shock forces you're putting into bushings, mounting points,and the unibody itself due to increased daping and spring rates that you don't see in tarmac driving even at 10/10ths.

Also, anyone naive enough to say "there's no risk" is foolish. All automotive sports have risk. Ignoring it, or, more accurately, denying its existence, is foolhardy and dangerous. I know of multiple cars in the last few years that have gone over, collapsed suspensions, ripped tires off beads, bent/cracked/broken wheels, ripped up front fenders, cracked bumpers, etc. It's a timed event, so you're not covered, legally, by insurance, either

Now, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with rallycross, but it's also not approppriate to try to "call people out" for something they've made an active decision not to participate in due to the preparation or equipment level of their cars, or a desire to not let Mother Nature's finest make unplanned modifications to their autoX/Solo rides.

This where you get your rally experience Cody? :P

http://www.seccs.org/forums/attachme...0&d=1137019492

Hey sybir,

how about you learn how to read, or use the Search in page, I never said there was no risk. Go back and search word for word in this entire thread. Where did you get the idea that I wrote there was no risk at all?

I wrote the risk of suspension damage is roughly the same as the squaw event. Is that where? where's the reading comprehension ?

Its the same danger as AutoCross. Though I've unfortunately seen one person hit at an Autocross. and seen video of a 3 car crash at an autocross. I've never seen anyone personally injured at a Rally Cross, and i pray to god it stays that way.

A little good natured Poking fun at me is one thing.
All out hatred and slander of a sport you don't like is something different (and apparently what everyone here wants)

How about Scott or who ever just Deletes the "rallycross" sub title of the Motor sports category, since clearly this Car Club is Anti-RallyX

Basically i'm just calling everyone out as being a Rally Cross Haters at this point :P (although there is no need to do that, as its beyond obvious) no one besides me & Ansel (to my knowledge) has been to one (or won a trophy in a rallyX Series) and yet everyone is talking about roll overs, and extreme danger. Showing pics of a Track off @ over 100 mph.

I think the best thing about RallyX is the RallyX Crowd. you could tell them that you Circle Race, Drag Race or spec Ford Race. and if they aren't into it the responses are generally "Not my cup of Tea, but i'm happy that you are into something you are passionate about, I hope you have good luck and enjoy it"

Where as here, well , all of your posts speak for themselves! :lol:

:lol: Ya Haters! :lol: (at least i get some amusement out of all this :P)

Now this tells me that you didn't comprehend... Cody was poking fun at those of us on "glass suspension", and thus, as a friend mind you, I decided to poke fun back at him. Trust me, if it was meant as "slander" as you put it, from me, you'd know! I don't do subtle well.

Your initial invite was a well versed one! You mentioned the type, location, and time of the event, and gave a little insight as to what's to be expected! That's great! And the few people with interest expressed it. The specific question you posed was why don't more members participate in this type of event, and Scott and I have attempted to help you understand, from our standpoint, why this type of motorsport would be too hard on our cars. You try more convincing, we try more explaining, and you eventually end up calling us "haters".

Don't start a discussion if you're gonna end up taking other's opinions as personal strikes dude! Lack of interest in something is NOT "hating" but simply lack of interest.

I think you are taking this the wrong way. I don't think anyone here hates rally cross, just most people choose not to participate. And that's all anyone is trying to say. I would think most of us fall under that "Its not my cup of tea..." crowd as well, but it seems you are taking these responses the wrong way here Alex. Not wanting to participate (and giving reasons for it) is not the same as hating the sport.

Why has this thread even reached this point? A lot of us just don't have cars that we want to rallyx with. That doesn't mean we hate it. I love to get crazy on dirt roads, but unless it's as smooth as marbles on concrete I won't do it. The last time I drove on dirt with my car was when I had my L.

Unbunch your panties man.

First, mentioning the downsides to rallycross is not slander. It's true: cars generally take a bigger beating off road rallycrossing than they do on tarmac at autocross. You keep mentioning Squaw, but fail to realize that we've run Squaw once in the last 10 years, and most of us won't go back until the repaving is done because it's too harsh. It's also true that a car on stiff tarmac coilovers will get beat up even more than a car on proper suspension for the sport. When I went to the SCCA's rallycross administrator's conference during the NORPAC convention years back in an effort to learn how to put on these events, we were warned: cars roll over a lot when compared to autocross. We were told that we'd need a tow vehicle to turn cars (well usually SUVs) back over, and a water truck to keep the course's dust down and prep the surface.

Nobody hates rallycross, most of us have simply already made significant investments in going fast on tarmac that effectively exclude us from the sport. In fact to the contrary, MattR and I four years ago tried to get a permanent rallycross course build at Reno-Fernely Raceway. We talked with the track owner, toured the facility, and discussed what it would take to level their ATV course into a proper venue for cars. End result: the track wanted a ton of manpower to clear the rocks off the course that prevent it from being friendly to street cars... and at that time, it was just me and Matt interested in rally. So it got dropped. To be frank, Matt and I did more for rallycross in Reno than anyone else has. The problem is at the time there were 2 people interested: me and Matt. Four years later and the interest level is still the same... there are still 2 people interested: you and Ansel, but I don't see you guys attending planning classes, locating sites, looking for support, etc.

Don't act all high and mighty 'cause you've been to 10 whole rallycross events... it's not that impressive, especially considering the level of competition at those events (when was the last time you had 5 people within a second in one class?). It's not all that spectacular to people that race 25 events a season, and have been doing so for years. I've never rallycrossed because when I wanted to, there was no program within 200 miles of Reno, and our attempts to start our own program ran into lack of support to pull it off. Since then, most of us have moved on towards tarmac competition meaning we're just not all that interested in rally... we're not "haters", just disinterested.

But if your attitude is at all representative of the attitude of people at rallycrosses towards autocrossers, I'm going to guess you're likely driving people away from your sport. When you show up to autocrosses, do people talk shit to you about racing on dirt? I've never seen an autocrosser look down on a rallycrosser, yet you seem to have some superiority complex, as if racing a Subaru on anything but dirt is "less" than what you do. Here's a news flash: Subarus aren't the end-all of rally cars... with the exception of the pathetic Rally America series (where the STi just outclasses about everything else) the WRX is a crappy rally car. They get beat up regularly in the WRC. Meanwhile, the STI is *the* car for production SCCA Touring 2, it and the EVO mop up at autocross, and it's also extremely successful at time attack. And if it were legal for Grand Am Cup, or World Challenge, it'd be cleaning up there too. While the platform came from rally, it's way more successful these days on tarmac. Your high horse is standing on only 3 legs, you should be careful.

And on a side note: Sybir's actually worked for rally teams both prepping and supporting the cars. I think he might know a little bit about what happens to equipment that's raced off road.

I'd say that's how I roll, but fortunately I didn't. :eek:

Very fortunately! Well put!

Yes, this ;)



Any questions?
This, is why we don't have nice things. One of our old cars is on the right. I know a little bit about race prep, and rally prep. That's rally, not rallycross, but the disciplines are similar enough and rooted in the same fundamentals and surfaces, and trust me, I know enough about the differences to tell you what's the same in terms of equipment risks (please don't try to make an argument about jumping, I know it's not a part of RallyX). I also have a lot of friends who rallycross down here, including at the Thill location, and I've seen the chassis and body damage that ensue. It's not insurmountable, it's not unacceptable, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.

I'm glad you haven't seen someone go over, I'm glad you haven't seen lots of damage, but what you're presenting in this thread is that it's as safe or safer than AutoX becuase of your limited personal experience, and as both an admin and someone with experience in the field you're discussing, I'd be remiss in not commenting on your responses in attempt to make sure everyone has the big picture.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong based on your experience, but that's a double-edged sword; yuou also have to acknowledge that other people may have different relevant experiences that are also very valid.

I'm not trying to be an asshole here, Im trying to explain why people who have made different decisions about chassis prep than you have might elect to not participate in something that would damage their car.

i'm going and it'll be fun.

As I already wrote: I understand why many people don't go. Distance, Hotel, driving on a ~ Squaw Surface on a car setup for smooth pavement can cause damage.

Any motor sport has dangers, I was at Hawthorne when a fellow autocrosser got injured. Hell anytime you step into a car you are taking a risk of injury and/or death.

Yes Sybir your last post is dead on.
its not Rally, but its still a motor sport, damage can happen, people could be hurt. I've seen cars break down at autocrosses and rally cross could (and given enough time, events, exposure) Will cause the same thing. (its a motor sport)

I have a hard time believing the very limited event sites I've personally seen would cause chassis damage, but going over anything that's not glass smooth has to cause wear and tear on components, and that includes the chassis.

but really, Why can't everyone bit a bit more pithy about it ?

Also I was only talking about this 1 event site that i have a lot (relatively) of personal experience with.

edit to clarify
No Scott, (no other rallyXers are like me, getting all worked up cause someone pushed their buttons just right) I'm just an easy target for you :P and you continue to have the ability and the desire to do so. But If i wasn't i'm sure you would have banned me long ago.
:lol: and on occasion i have fun with it too

I also really really hope i didn't Jinx this up coming event talking about how its comparable to autocross in terms of safety. :|