Shop ruined my gf's alignment, need some advice
 

My girlfriend's clutch started slipping a couple weeks ago in her Jetta. So, on Joel's recommendation, I took it to La Union on Thursday and got it back Friday evening. They did a great job on the clutch, no chattering, and I got all the old parts (upon request), so I can only assume they put all the new ones on the car.

The only problem is, they really f'ed her caster. I test drove it after we got it back, but I was only paying attention to how the clutch felt. Since she knows the car better than me, she said the steering felt weird. I knew what it was right away, but had her pull over. I could see it right away, I'd guess at least 5 degrees deifference between the 2 sides.

I'm planning on taking it back tomorrow, but I need dome advice on what to do. Obviously, I'm going to ask them to fix it, but I doubt they will. If they refuse, what do I do then? Call the cops? Seems a little extreme, and I doubt they can do anything to fix it in a timely manner, and I hate cops and don't want them involved,but it might work. The threat might work well, because I doubt all of them are legal... Any other options? Any suggestions would be great, thanks!

Did they put something back together wrong? Like flip an eccentric or something?

I dunno I didn't take a look.

Caster is totally non-adjustable unless you've got high-end aftermarket racing top mounts. Plus, there's no way you could see the caster being off just by looking at it. You sure there isn't something else wrong?

From a bird's eye view of her tires: \ |

That's caster, right? I don't really know what could have caused it, that's why I'm here :)

That's camber, does the shop do alignments too?

Bird's eye view = toe
Front & Back of the car view = camber
Side of the car = caster (which you will see the tire in a circle not line).

Ah, I was thinking it was the view from the rear of the car. It's toe.

Oops, toe. I could ask if they do alignments as well. But whether they do or not, what do I do if they refuse to
fix her car?

you go ape shit on their asses!! haha actually if they don't i'd report them to BBB

Talk nicely with them and they will likely do the right thing. No need to get angry to start with.

I am assuming you mean that is how the wheels are when the steering wheel is straight/centered.

My guess is that they had to disconnect the steering wheel from the rack to get to the trans and they put it back 1 notch off. I doubt they had to actually change the length of the tie rods which would affect actual toe setting.

That's what I'm thinking, is something simple like that, Dean. And after my time working in a grocery store, I never blow up on someone right away, because it is rarely their fault, and that is not the way to get results :)

the reason I'm worried about them not fixing it is because they are a cheap, kinda shady shop. I guess I'll hope for the best, and go from there. If anyone else has any suggestions, post up. I'm heading over there after I pick up my tires from tire rack at about 4:30, and I'd love to hear everyone's opinion. Thanks

Fuck hope, I say go in swinging. Take Dean with you for backup.

what He said^

Let's fucking roll Dean! Lol

Give him a sec, he's getting his walker.

I don't see why they wouldn't fix it. I think you might be getting all excited over nothing. I think its pretty simple actually. Walk in and say "my car doesn't drive straight anymore. I need it fixed today." Set the keys on the counter and go sit down.

Being Mexican doesn't make someone a shyster. A lot of shops have tried to rip me off in the past and they have all been white guys.

If they won't fix it, take it to BCT. Not a Mexican or white dude in the place except the one Italian, but he is cool...

I didn't say they were shysters cuz they were Mexican, I said it cuz they're cheap, which means they make up the difference by taking shortcuts. If I make them take the "long cut", there goes their profit. Generally. And yes, I'm really hoping I'm getting worked up over nothing, but I'll handle the situation better if I'm prepared for the worst

So, it turns out they were shysters. They are trying to claim it was like that before, and if we can get a shop to say that they caused it then they'll fix it. I went to Nissan, but apparently bob doesn't work Mondays and Cory takes off at 4:30. Les schwab was booked, and big o said it would be $20 to check, and they couldn't prove it was the shop's fault.

Now I'm at a loss of what to do. She needs an aligment bad. She has an appt at Les schwab at 3 tomorrow, but I doubt they will be able to "prove" that it's their fault. I'm hoping bob or Cory can look at it sometime tomorrow..? She doesnt work tomorrow so she's free all day, lemme know please :)

any other suggestions?

Bob's off tomorrow, and I'm ridiculously busy... I don't usually leave for lunch tho. If she can swing by at noon-ish, I can at least duck my head under there and see what's going on. I'm pretty good at finding other people's fuck-ups.

Shoulda brought Dean with you. In my own experience most shops will charge you for alignment when they do anything that might funk it up.

Cory, could you write down what you find so we could take it to the shop and show them? When she comes in, should she just ask to talk to Cory? At big o they mentioned that they could have put the subframe back in slightly the wrong position, which would throw off the toe. If that helps

Cory's offering to take a look on his own time - anything you're going to try to run as a claim with another shop providing evidence is probably going to need to go through the front end of a shop - any shop. Otherwise you've got some shady shop, by your own admission, now burning Cory's or the dealership's time for something they never wrote up or got paid for - which a: won't hold up as a claim and b: is kind of a dick move.

So what you're saying is, I just need to eat the $90, because using Cory won't hold up as proof that they fucked it up, and no other shop will put their name behind that? Or I'm a dick for asking Cory to do so? Both maybe? Haha. I'm not trying to use it as evidence in court, just to show them that, according to a professional, they fucked her alignment. If that is out of line, I'm sorry Cory.

Dean, what is BCT?

Black Cory Tuning

Sorry Rob. I didn't think it was possible to do that while replacing a clutch.

Haha me neither. I don't blame you, but I do blame myself for not listening to my gut. Either way, even after an alignment, I think it's still gonna be cheaper than a clutch install anywhere else. I just gotta try and find that $100 bill I keep in my ass for emergencies...

How about putting the car on some jackstands, getting some string, a pair of open ended wrenches, and fixing the toe in your driveway for free?

Here are some tips:

http://www.seccs.org/forums/showthread.php?t=808

Turn the wheel all the way to lock each way. If they don't match, then they likely did what I said earlier, misaligned the wheel to the rack.

If you have access to the shop manual, or a web howto, you could also see if it requires the sub frame to be dropped, or the rack unhooked...

...wow

The thing is... the rack, subframe, tie-rods, etc don't need to be touched at all to do the clutch. I'd look for something bent... like crashed into a curb bent.

OK. Not knowing what is required for clutch on a Jetta, I was guessing it is transversely mounted, and might require getting stuff out of the way.

Ah. Possible joy ride. Rob, how long did they have the car?

Wait... I forgot we were talking about a Jetta. I don't know shit about that... for all I know, the fuel tank has to come out to do the clutch.

According to Pat at Big O, the subframe does have to
one off to do the clutch. He said that's probably what they put back wrong, because it's really hard to line it back up straight. But what dean is saying about the steering rack might be it also, because the steering wheel turns a little farther right than left. Also, the wheels aren't damaged and the weights are still on them, so I don't think they crashed into a curb.

Joel, I kinda doubt they had a joy ride in a ~100 chp car... But they had it from thursday night to Friday afternoon. And now that you mention it, of course I forgot to write down the mileage when I dropped it off

No, she should ask for Steve. That's the way to get ahold of me... :P

BTW, if the steering wheel/linkage was put back misaligned, the toe on the front tires would still be even, just the steering wheel would be off while the car was driving straight. The subframe being off, or a tie rod being improperly installed is a more likely culprit.

Aaron's correct, in that I was simply offering a professional eye to help find the problem. If you go back over there and say "my friend's a mechanic and he said the problem is (x) and you guys have to fix it" they're gonna laugh in your face. That's what I do when people come in and tell be about their "friend the mechanic".

Oh. Well shit. I'll say I threw it up on a lift and took a look then lol. I told her to be there at noon. Just let her know what the problem is, and either you or her can call me if need be. Thanks Cory.

Wait, you have a GF? :huh:

That's the only reason my gay jokes are funny. If I were single, I'd be just as homophobic as the next guy ;) lol

Who's this "next guy"? Your boyfriend?

Hooray for not putting the lower ball joint together correctly!!!!

VW uses a ball joint with a plate on it, having three holes, that bolt to the LCA. One of those bolts was installed correctly... needless to say, it's fixed now.

Send a bill to the other shop.

Thank you so much Cory! I can officially say that Cory saved my girlfriend's and my life! Haha. Not to mention, $90 for an alignment ;)

All the original shop had to do was offer to put it up on their rack and look. :rolleyes:

Not sure if Nissan/Cory did paperwork/charged you anything, but no matter what, I'd be tempted to go back to the other shop and tell them what they did, and what they should have done. Only to talk to the manager. The liability alone of not connecting a ball joint correctly is huge...

I'd mention the BBB and their insurance company if needed. I'd also mention that this issue is already posted on local automotive forums and many people are waiting to see how it is resolved...

Any remotely intelligent manager will realize he is not just losing 1 customer, but potentially hundreds and make it right...

That's the part that made me most upset, is that they wouldn't even look at it. The thing is, "shop" may be a bit exaggerated when referring to this place. It's a plywood shed with a bunch of mexicans and jackstands. Going in to a shop with that low of a quote for a cluth, I didn't expect much less, but I do think they could have just looked at it real quick.

I was planning on going over there today after work and letting them know how easily it was fixed. And no, Cory didn't charge, and he did it on his lunch break. I offered him lunch, but apparently he doesn't like wendy's haha. All in all, I'd say that the lesson I learned is: you get what you pay for. I'm just tired of learning this lesson the hard way... I'll grow up someday, and start doing things correctly

Boy, sounds like a great place. :rolleyes:

Not only would I not bother going back to them about the ball-joint. I'd worry about whether or not the clutch was done correctly and would think about getting it inspected.

Why?

Would you trust anyone that can't figure out how to install a bolt and uses jackstands and a plywood shack to run their automotive repair business to swap a clutch, regardless of their race?

How about quoting Rob instead of me... he's the one pointing out race.