Next up... the SVX's motor
 

It's finally time to deal w/ the SVX's leaky front-end. :(

I figure, since I'm mopping up about a tablespoon of fresh oil off the garage floor every day, it's time to pull the front of the SVX's motor apart to replace the seals, and freshen up the rest of the stuff under the timing cover while I'm in there.

So, I ordered up some new cam seals, cam plugs (the intake cams are gear-driven by the exhaust cams inside the heads, so there's no seal, just a plug over the end of the cam), timing belt, and water pump. Plus some other odds and ends to correct a minor leak at the power-steering reservoir. I picked the bits up this afternoon, and after some careful maneuvering of the WRX into the 3rd car stall in the garage, I got the SVX up on the ramps and started pulling stuff apart.

I drained and yanked the radiator, pulled the P/S pump and alternator, and then noticed that there's a nice crank pulley sized hole worn through the front of the timing cover. :eek: Apparently, the SVX uses a two-piece crank pulley that has a rubber damper between the two pieces. When the rubber wears out, the outer ring of the pulley can wander... either into the timing cover (like mine) or go shooting off the front of the motor and into traffic. :lol: So, now I'm going to need a new timing cover and crank pulley. Luckily, the SVX shares pulley's with all the EJ motors, so I can just use the stock pulley off my WRX that's been sitting in a box for the last 5 years or so.

Then I got further into the motor, pulling the timing belt and checking the idlers. Well, none of the idlers are perfectly quiet, but one of them is nearly shot... so that's another piece to order. Surprisingly, the timing belt looks awesome. I assume it's either the original or second timing belt on the car, so it's got at least 100k miles on it, if not 220k... and it looks fantastic! The year-old accessory belts that were on there look 100 times worse!

And while I'm poking around, I find where all the power steering leaks are coming from (it wasn't just the reservoir like I had hoped)... basically all the lines except the high-pressure line from the pump to the rack are shot... they're actually leaking through the clamps, because the clamps have nearly cut them through! I'll be able to get away with replacing a few of the low-pressure return lines with some fuel hose I've already got I think, but there are some other bits I need to order, including some more o-rings for the HP line.

And finally, after crawling around under there, I'm coming to the conclusion that the valve covers are leaking as well, though not as bad as the cam seals... so if I'm going to do all this work, I might as well replace all the seals in there as well.

So, I just ordered up the valve cover gaskets, the power steering lines I need, an idler pulley, radiator hoses, and timing cover bits I need. Ugh... this is getting to be expensive! But it should mean the SVX is good to go for a long while longer, as long as I don't lose a ring-land or something else internal to the motor *knocks on wood*.

Now I just have to figure out if it'll be less work to pull the motor out entirely to do all this work (and cleaning... there's like a 4mm thick sludge covering *everything*), or if it's less work just to suffer through taking out all the crap like the airbox, battery, coolant reservoir, etc, just to still have cramped working conditions to get at the valve covers... I think leaving the motor in will actually be less work, simply because I can leave the A/C and fuel lines alone... but I'd really like to pull it out to really clean it top to bottom and make sure everything that needs repair is taken care of.

And I have to say... working on a car w/ 220k mile *sucks*. Nearly everything on my WRX is new (you know 'cause the motor is perpetually 6 months old)... so I'm not used to dealing with all the grit and grime of a car that's been driven w/ a slow oil leak for 2 years (even when the WRX's motor was covered in oil due to the oil breather issues it had, at least that oil was fresh, and not sludge). I got new respect for folks like Cory that have to wrench on other people's messes all the time! Plus, it seems like just about every hose on that car is hard as concrete... I'm afraid to bend anything for fear of it cracking and crumbling.

If it wasn't for the $120 AC recharge, I'd probably say just pull the engine. But that's a lot of cash just to have a little more elbow room, so it's probably worth it to give it a try in place.

Wow, more fun for you I guess. So, the WRX crank pulleys are 1-piece? Wow, now I know what to replace all mine with.

Isn't that dirt so fun?

Actually... now that you mention it... I'm not sure if the WRX is one-piece or not. I know all the aftermarket ones are!

Either way I guess, my WRX pulley only has around 20k miles on it (if that) since it was one of the things I replaced early on... so if a pulley lasts 200k miles, I've got another 150-180k to go on the WRX one it seems. :lol:

I'm thinking I may be able to pull the A/C compressor and just set it on the fender w/o removing the lines. The only issue is that the last time I torqued on the lines, it made the old o-rings in there leak. I ended up having to replace the o-rings on the compressor and re-charge the system once before.

However, with the new-ish o-rings in there, it will probably be more resilient to leaking, but probably not at the firewall... so I'm still up in the air about it. Folks on the SVX forum are bitching about how much of a PITA the job is with the motor in the car... plus if I pull the motor, I can do the rear-main seal as well just 'cause the motor's out and it'll eventually need to be done.

Yeah dude, I could type an entire page of bitching about working on older, greasy cars...

If it were me, I'd do the job in the car, unless you're *really* set on doing the rear main seal. (did we not to that when the trans. was out?) It's a squeeze, but with the right tools you can get to the valve covers without pulling the motor, or your hair, out.

Wow.. (Not that I have anything useful to say in this thread but...) I was just telling my wife how cool it would be to add an SVX to the family because I have always admired their design. I did once see a 5speed conversion on an SVX that looked pretty cool :)

Good Luck with your SVX Scott..

How often do people do valve adjustments on Subaru motors?

Well shit... if we did the rear main (I can't remember) then I will just leave the motor in the car. On the other hand, if I should be doing the rear main, I might as well pull the motor and do the engine mounts we ended up not doing w/ the tranny swap as well.

How do we go about getting you to remember if you did the rear main? :lol: I remember you bitching about how heavy that tranny is... can you recall if after pulling that trashed tranny out, you swapped the rear main (probably from that box of Subaru seals you've got sitting around, 'cause I don't remember buying a rear main from the dealership) before dead-lifting the new tranny into place like a super-hero?

I have experienced a crank pulley leaving my vehicle at speed and it was unfun. :|

Dude, if you pull the motor, slap a manual in there. Heheh.

But, if you need to borrow an AC recharge harness, I have one. On this last swap, I never disconnected the AC, just rotated it out of the way.

I'm going to try really hard to leave the A/C in place.

Oh, and I just found out, SVX motor mounts are like $200... each. And they're stupid oil-filled rubber mounts that tend to shear open and become useless. Screw paying as much for two mounts as I paid for everything else! I just ordered a pair of WRX mounts at $80 ea, and I'll be grinding down the SVX brackets to make the WRX mounts fit. They're stronger, stiffer, and cheaper.

Damn dude... I wish I could remember for sure if I did that seal or not. It's the kind of thing I'd do, but the entire event is eclipsed in my mind by the FANTASTIC back pain...

:lol:

Well, then I think I'm going to pull the motor so I can do it and the engine mounts. Now I just gotta get a hoist again!

Hey Van, wanna loan me that hoist I was so insistent on getting out of my garage and back to you? :lol:

Crap, I'm supposed to be using it this weekend to pull the EJ20 and gearbox out of the RS! :lol:

It's cool, I just found one on Craig's List I'll be picking up this evening.

Nice. What's a used one go for anyway?

'round $100 give or take on condition and lift capacity.

Anyone know how to take a torque converter off an engine?

I assumed it would stay on the transmission when I pulled the motor... instead I've got a motor hanging from the hoist that I can bolt to the engine stand because the TC sticks out too far.

I'm not the professional mechanic, but I think it just slides off.

There should be several bolts around the perimeter of the TC. At least all the automatics I've taken apart are that way. Then you should be left with a "flex plate" bolted to the crank the same as the flywheel. Also, I don't know about subaru, but all of the automatics I've done recommend replacing the TC seal when it comes off the trans.

Ah, okay.


all my experience with automatics comes from watching hot rod shows on Spike. :oops:

Got any idea what the P/N is for that TC seal?

Okay, I think I know the 4 bolts that Steve's talking about. The problem is, I need to take the TC off the engine to get to them, which is all that I'm trying to do to begin with! So, I'm guessing that there's some sort of miscommunication about the state of my TC, or I'm blind and can't find the bolts that Steve mentioned.

Here's what I'm dealing with (see pics). How do I pull that bitch off in order to get the motor to fit on my engine stand? And when I go to reinstall the motor, can I install the TC in the tranny before putting the motor into the car? I gotta think I'll demolish the oil seal in the tranny trying to jam that TC in there with the weight of the motor behind it!

sorry, been away from the computer all day. those are exactly the bolts you need to undo. There should be an access port or plate in the flange on the motor to get to the head of the bolts. The WRX has a plastic plug under the IC to get to them. I have no idea on the 6 cyl. motor where it is.

By the way, watch out on Mt. Rose hwy. and Wedge. Just got pulled over for doing 5 over the limit. Well actually got pulled over for flicking my high beams. Didn't know it was a cop, but it sure looked like he had his highs on...

Yeah, I sorted that out shortly after posting... since the motor was out of the car I realized it was easy to just access the bolts down by the oil pan. I got the TC and then the flex plate off... but I still can't put the engine on my stand because the bolts that came off the car aren't long enough to mate with the stand... so I gotta go find some big old metric bolts at the hardware store tomorrow. Then I can actually get to work on cleaning up and re-sealing the motor.

SHIT! The best thing would have been to leave the TC in the trans... Too late now, but what you do is pull the little rubber plug behind the intake manifold, on the passenger side, and you can get to the 12mm nuts that hold the TC to the flex plate. Since there's a high possibility that you F'ed the trans input seal, I'd surely replace that before you go back together. The TC simply slides in to the trans, but you have to rotate it and push in at the same time, to get it to index all the way in to the trans oil pump. It's not hard, but you kinda have to know what you're doing to know if it's all the way in...

Yeah, I'm definitely replacing that oil seal... it's as old and worn out looking as the rest of the seals on the car... so even if I had left the TC on the tranny, I'd would want to pull it to replace that seal anyway since I've got the whole damn motor out.

Also, you guys should have seen the passenger side engine mount. I was able to just grab it and tear it in two. :lol: There was maybe 1/2" of material left holding it together! The rest had all sheared apart, and all the oil in it was gone. I'm putting some brand new WRX mounts back in there, I just need to fab up a 1/4" spacer to make sure the motor doesn't sit too low.

Awesome, it sounds like things are coming along!

All I know is, when I take that auto out of my Legacy wagon, it's not going back in. What a PITA!

Haha. That's how the ones on the 91' Legacy were. Only I can't remember what we replaced them with. I know Josh bought DZ's STi mounts, but I'm not sure if that's what he replaced them with.

It's fun to read your write-ups. Makes me want to get dirty and work on the truck.

Good luck with the rest of the work.

Yah, I was very glad to see they were in excellent shape when I pulled the motor - I don't know if they were STi either, but they sure were better than the originals on the old motor!

They came from an 05 STI, and had like 10k miles on them when I got 'em :)

As Deede said, the original ones on the Legacy just came off in two parts. They weren't even connected. :rofl:

So, I finished up the SVX over the weekend! :) Here's the writeup I posted over on the SVX boards as I was doing the work (mostly I'm just showing off pictures with my super awesome faux-carbon fiber work bench top):

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Well, since no one wanted to buy my SVX "as is" with the cam seal leaking, I decided to tackle the oil leak and do the timing belt and water pump while I was in there.

But after going under the hood and getting a better look at the oil leak(s), I decided that the valve covers and main seals ought to be done as well, so I figured it'd be worth it to pull the motor and really clean it up.

I pulled the motor last week. Here's the mess I found:

http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1067.JPG

http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1068.JPG

http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1070.JPG

http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1065.JPG

http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1066.JPG

Looks like the valve covers are leaking, the cam seals/plugs, and the power steering pump reservoir. So in my spare time over the past week, I got crazy w/ the engine cleaner, pressure washer, and various brushes.

Much better!

http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1072.JPG

http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1073.JPG

http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1074.JPG

http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1081.JPG

http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1082.JPG

Now I'm just waiting on a few more bits to get delivered from subaruparts.com (I had all the seals, but the timing cover was demolished by a worn crank pulley, so I had to order that stuff up, plus I figured I should do the rear-main once I decided to pull the whole motor) and I can get to work on the seals, water pump, timing belt, and spark plug. Plus, I'm sure there's some more cleaning here and there that will need to get done.

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Update time!

I finally got my package from SubaruParts.com. It required me emailing them and asking why they "processed" my order on the 13th, but still hadn't shipped it a week later. When it showed up, it was packaged in a Jimmy Johns box!? Something tells me my order fell through the cracks then got rushed out the door after they got my email. I've ordered a million times from SubaruParts.com so I'm just going to chalk it up to someone having the random "one of those days" I guess.

Anyway... with my parts in hand I was able to reseal the valve covers, install the main seals, cam seals and cam plugs, spark plugs, as well as swap the rear knock sensor (I did the front a while back, but with the motor out I could finally get to the rear one w/o taking off the intake manifold). I was also going to do the PCV, but even with the motor out, I'm gonna have to get a crows-foot 19mm socket.

Here are some pictures from the work, I'll annotate them later but for the most part, they're in order.

Valve cover resealing parts:
http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1109.JPG

RH valve cover removed:
http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1105.JPG

Tore out the old gaskets... work slowly to prevent them from crumbling apart. I was amazed they were working at all!
http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1111.JPG

New gaskets installed!
http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1115.JPG

Old and new spark plugs:
http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1117.JPG

RH valve cover complete!
http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1119.JPG

I used some hi-temp gasket maker to glue the ignition wire brackets back down, since they were all broken off.
http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1120.JPG

Front main, plus the assembly lube I used to install the seals:
http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1121.JPG

RH exhaust cam seal replaced, plus the socket used to press it in:
http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1125.JPG

New knock sensor installed:
http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1132.JPG

Full gallery of all the pictures I've taken: http://www.seccs.org/gallery/index.p...ne%20Resealing

I also did the LH valve cover, but the pics look pretty much the same. I've still got the water pump to replace, and then the timing gear to put back. Then the motor is pretty much ready to go back into the car! Hopefully it'll be running by Sunday!

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To wrap things up:

Over the weekend I finished up the work on the motor and got it back in the car. I didn't take a ton of pictures since I was focused on just getting the motor back in the car and running (I especially wish I had taken pictures of the WRX motor mounts), but I did take a few:

Timing gear all back together. I replaced one of the idlers because it was pretty squeaky... I'm kinda thinking I should have just ponied up and replaced them all... but that's another $150-200 or so. Hopefully I'll get to 300,000 miles before they give out!
http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1144.JPG

New o-ring on the power steering reservoir. No more pulsing in the steering wheel now that the pump isn't sucking air!
http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1147.JPG

Cleaned up P/S pump. I swear, I thought the pump was black until I started scrubbing it!
http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1148.JPG

New o-ring on the high pressure P/S line.
http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1152.JPG

Motor going back in!
http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1155.JPG

Accessories and belts good to go.
http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1157.JPG

All done!
http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...g/IMG_1160.JPG

So after getting everything back together and filling all the fluids, the car fired after cranking over only twice. I had to top off the power steering fluid after cranking the wheel back and forth a few times of course. Other than that, there were no issues getting the car running. No fluid or exhaust leaks, and just a little burn-off of the cleaner that was left on the headers.

One thing that surprised me was how night and day the new motor mounts are! Going from basically one worn-out SVX mount (the other was torn in half) to two WRX mounts made a *huge* difference in responsiveness when getting on the throttle. The car feels much quicker, and it even seems to turn better w/o having that heavy-ass motor rolling around under the hood.

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Hopefully I'll be able to get out of work this week and actually make it to the meet tomorrow and bring the SVX. It feels like a new car with the new motor mounts and the lack of oil spraying all over the place. :lol:

Dude, that's awesome! Want to help me do my timing belt now? :P

Um. First, I need time for my hands to heal (with all the gunk engine cleaner and metal brushes I used, they took a pounding). Second, fuck your timing belt. :P

LOL

Looks great Scott. Almost looks like a new engine bay. My poor engine bay is a mess after the last blow up and the pretty new '07 block is covered in oil and crap. I'll be dragging the chassis out into the driveway to scrub and pressure wash it like you did while it is empty.

I hope those other idlers hold up and you don't have to open it up again.

Did you use any rtv or anything on the valve cover gaskets in addition to the new gaskets themselves? The STI covers appear to have had some rtv help in some places, or perhaps it is just squished and heated gaskets.

My WRX was in the same shape after that season with the perpetually exploding oil catch cans. I did just what you mentioned... parked it at the end of the driveway and gunk'd it and pressure washed it. I also made sure to give the environment a big middle finger too while I was doing it. Then once the motor was out and getting rebuilt at the shop I did a second hand scrubbing of the engine bay in the garage, then repainted it with Ford blue in a rattle can since it's about a 99% match to the undercoat color on the WRB cars.

I used RTV in spots on the WRX valve covers just to tack them down during install. But the SVX gaskets are kind of a different, harder material and they more or less "install" into the cover, so you don't need to tack them down. Also, they're way more complicated than they need to be, and yet still require gasketed washers for all 10 bolts per cover, rather than the better WRX design that puts all the bolts outside the gaskets.

I will say though that having the intake cams geared to the exhaust cams makes installing the timing belt like 30 times easier on the EG33 than the EJ motors. But it also mean not only is there no AVCS, it's not even a remote possibility as a retrofit job.

You gonna squirt some tears? :P









:lol: I can imagine it must not feel great when you don't already have those "leather mechanic's palms"

Normally my hands get kinda beat up when I work on the car, but this time they really just sorta came apart on me. I think it was because I spent so much time with my hands soaking wet in engine cleaner, oil eater, and freezing cold water. :( (I wonder if I got cancer?)

I will say though, putting lotion on them every 20 minutes for the last 3 days has really helped them bounce back! (But I'm still not doing Cody's timing belt. :P )

I did the first engine without gloves and then the second with Nitrile gloves. I think I will wear gloves for most anything in the future. My hands are much happier.

I had tried latex in the past but did not like the way they felt and they tore way to easily.

I noticed the cam gears. Interesting since they are not gear driven to the crank, only to each other I assume.

And Cody, stop whining about the timing belt and do it. One finicky bolt is all you have to deal with and the starter motor can help. :)

Dude, that is so awesome. I really wish now that I had taken the extra day to really clean everything while I was in there on mine.

Of the approx. 5 days I worked on the car... really only about a days worth of time was spent on pulling the motor, replacing the seals/hoses, and reinstalling the motor. The other 4 days were in cleaning, and in cleaning up the mess in the garage afterwards. It was a lot of "extra" work.

I've got Nitrile gloves. They turn into saggy wet messes in the presence of brake cleaner and other such degreasers. Totally useless. :(

Great, when can we start? You're not busy. :lol:

Wow!! That thing looks like a new engine.. good job on cleaning/degreasing it .

Now that you mention it, they don't work real well even when they are just wet with coolant, mush less with the stuff you are talknig about.

I'llhave to go to the heavier duty multi-use genuine rubber gloves that make it harder to work and hold things. A double edged sword.

I do really like the nitriles for normal mechanic work though. Just not having to brush/dig gunk out from under your fingernails alone is a good enough reason to use them. I think Cory goes through a box a week, so don't let him tell you that "leather mechanic's palms" crap. :)

Use some rubber dish gloves when you work with strong chemicals you silly bastards.

It's not like I was cleaning w/ muriatic acid! :lol:

Your the one crying about cancer and raisin hands.:rolleyes: