actually i can and will say whatever i want.

u guys know this. yes if you put it before the turbo IGNORING ALL THE INSTRUCTIONS INCLUDED WITH EVERY WIDEBAND SETUP. then youre a fucking idiot.

i can make absolute statements all i want, because i honestly no longer care when people argue about my spelling and semantics of my statements.

also if you do research about widebands, instead of making blanket statements about them youd find that they are more arcurate when they are at a certain operating temperature. installed in the dam end of the tailpipe, will be alot colder than behind the turbo. and thus make your tuning and information less acurate.

considering the entire point of a wideband is to give MORE acurate readings than stock. you MIGHT want to read how they work and where they should be installed.

btw my argument is sound because im talking to people with iq's ABOVE 20. these people can draw logical conclusions based on how passionatly i responded.

also, this is why i dont talk on other forums. expaining myself and semantical arguments are a waste of time. just like this conversation has become.

So it's cool for you to make generalizations, but it's not cool for others. :roll:

Besides, I'm not the one researching a wideband... I just dropped what I knew about it, and qualified it as such. If I was wrong, no big deal, but I don't need to be called an idiot simply because you'd like to express how "passionate" you are about wideband O2 sensor placement.

You're absolutely right that you "can and will say whatever [you] want", but you'd probably get into less semantic arguments if you used some tact.

Also, anyone running a wideband on a dyno hang's 'em right of the end of the exhaust. Granted that's probably just for convience, but they seem to get by okay.

i didnt realize YOU installed one in that position in the uppipe. in fact from what you said, you didnt, you just had the ability. which means you are in fact NOT a fucking idiot. however every engineer if they want to call themselves that who designed it, IS a fucking idiot for thinking that was a good idea.

Cobb tuning in every instance i have seen with my own eyes, pulls the plug in the downpipe and uses it in order to fascilitate a wideband. they NEVER use a "sniffer". that is NOT a real wideband. they may tell you its a wideband. but unless they shove that fucker 8 feet down your exhaust and heat it up, its not. Im not speaking for other tuners but i know alot of them, and they ALL say thats the same method they use. when a customer doesnt have the plug, they insert the butt sniffer and "hope" for the best.

Im passionate about ALL things related to car tuning. i have been doing it longer than most of you. Also considering its how i make my living, i have to be.


And fyi, id get less semantic arguments if YOU would actually see what i wrote and think for 2 fucking seconds that u didnt ABSOLUTELY have to PROVE someone wrong EVERYTIME they post ANYTHING. IE nitpicking every word in every post to see some angle to argue.

I can fire that statement right back at you, so its ok for you to make generalizations but not for others :roll

Tell us how you really feel, M.C. Smooth. The only person coming off looking like a fucking idiot here is you, for acting like such a coarse asshole.

oooo tough guy eh? called me mc smooth, a fucking idiot, and a coarse asshole all in one post.

super tight.

that goes right along with tell me my spelling sucks.

keep in mind the only people i have insulted are engineers and people unwise enough to install a wideband improperly.

which is NOONE on this board. but you on the other hand have just lept over that line.

You're not the only one free to say whatever you want.

Your word for today is tact - maybe you'd lead a lower-friction life if you developed some of it.

P.S. Everyone take a damn chill pill.

Sperry, and DayOfPain, I appreciate your constructive input on placement. Lets just stick to constructive remarks in the tech thread. If you want to flame each other, please take it elsewhere.

Where are the moderators when you need them... :)

the word for today is in fact stupidity

i posted things related to the subject then proceeded to get flamed by people who just HAVE to be right about EVERY LAST THING. Then was called names. All i did was defend myself.

So for leading us off topic and insulting me, the stupid award goes too....

Moderators please delete this thread or edit for TECH content only!!!

It is clear to me that people are more concerned with being "right" and/or getting their panties in a bunch when someone disagrees than offering real technical data and constructive discussion.

well then ill play a card that noone has played.

so who here has built an 11 second subaru BESIDES THE VENDORS?
yeah.

so who here does their own work ?
yeah.

and like i said who here has installed one ???
yeah.

thats what i thought.




big show of hands! who here vomits random bits of information on the net to be right ?

show me anything on the net and ill find something to contradict it.


later.

MODERATORS!!!

please change my title to "Coarse Asshole" also acceptable would "M.C. Smooth" or "Professor of Tact"

Nice title for the new thread.

completely unbiased just like a moderator should be

I guess my thing is that we know who Phil is and it shows he is no different in person then on this fourm........

a brutally honest guy who is passionite about his beliefs!! I'm cool with that

I would like to say though that with harsh statments you could lose custormers because of the non use of tact in that people our fucking idiots.

no one is more greater then another when sharing information and there is no know all end all answer even if you did a thousand. Why, because even the industry changes design for better suited applications. If say LM-1 has a 1300 degree max operating temp, would you want to run it in a location at 1600 degrees? Nope........

I think if anything I'm still on Phil's side if only because anytime Scott breaks a blood vesel Atomic is right there to back him up.........WITCH IS FUCKING LAME. Nothing worse then being ganged up on a board with people you dont know.

I can say this because of my past experince with this board and I-Club, where I am called all kinds of names and sent PM's that say if I dont stop posting then they will make me look like an ass because of past post that they will share with everyone. Ok, I cant spell, I cant read clearlly, and I cant help a friend (even an E-friend) because the bully's on the play ground wont let me!!!

I think everyone should be a little less deffensive, and a little more open to other's input, and remember that this medium, text, does not convey sarchasm, facial expressions etc. and be a little more tolerant.

I am also very careful to state things as my opinions, and try not to use derogitory comments about even people I don't like, or gross generalizations, but that's just me.

This is a comunity, and while there may be individuals who I might not want to go on a vacation with in the group, I try to get along with everyone for the benefit of the comunity.

ouch if you turbo is at 1600 degrees you gots BIG problems. but thats a whole nother discussion. i posted in the other thread, with that washer in place youd be just fine installing it there.

and dont sweat it, i cant spell niether, but just remember what i said in another thread. if someone is attacking your spelling, you win! by default.

i would also like to restate that.

i never called ANYONE on this board a fucking idiot.

please reread my words.

"people who installed their widebands before the turbo"
"people who designed the vishnu uppipe"

i know noone on this board has done either.

SO if youre taking offense to that, then, well, i dont know.

Honest & no-bullshit is one thing, needless flaming is another and crosses the line into Jackassery!

It is possible to state opinions & lay out facts in a tech thread in a straight-forward manner without being mean & nasty about it.