Bump!
Since I'm back to running the WRX at the track, and since I'm still having problems keeping water temps under control, I figured I'd bump the existing water wetter thread, even though it's from the less friendly era of SECCS tech threads.
Here's something I came across:
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...-heads-up.html
Quote:
Greg Theisz
Southeast Regional Manager
Cell 713-253-3422 Fax 210-568-2940
gtheisz@royalpurple.com
We recently had a consumer provide us with a coolant sample that he thought had been contaminated with motor oil from a blown head gasket. We performed an analysis, and found it wasn't motor oil. It was polysiloxane polymer (i.e. silicone) from Red Line Water Wetter. He had been using this product for several years, adding a couple bottles per year.
Seeing this prompted us to look into the issue further in the controlled environment of our coolant test lab.
We setup our ASTM D2570 Simulated Service coolant test rig, and ran Water Wetter through repeated heat/cool cycles. We found that after 8-10 cycles, the polysiloxane polymer become completely insoluble. After another 5-6 cycles, it turned brown, and began coating the inside of the radiator. After another 15-20 cycles, it turned darker brown, and in the high heat area of the system became thicker in consistency -- almost like molasses.
As mentioned in a previous report on this topic, Red Line uses polysiloxane polymer as an antifoam ingredient in their Water Wetter formula. This is "old technology," as there are now far more sophisticated antifoam ingredients available for coolant. The problem with polysiloxane is that it is only marginally soluble in water, and polymerizes through repeated heating/cooling cycles.
Have a look at the attached photos. Two of them are glass beakers containing the Water Wetter/water solution drained from our ASTM test rig at the conclusion of the test. The other one is the coolant reservoir of the consumer who needlessly rebuilt his engine after using Water Wetter.
As you can see, this material looks a lot like motor oil. It coats everything it comes into contact with. It would take a lot of flushing to completely remove this from a cooling system. It's pretty nasty stuff. I can tell you, it took plenty of work to get it out of our ASTM test rig!
I have heard through the grapevine that the chemist who originally developed Water Wetter is no longer at Red Line, and none of their existing technical staff has any background in the area of coolants. For this reason, they are probably unable to update their formula to any newer types of technology. And of course, they are not members of ASTM, so they may not have any access to research or updated test methodology.
I share this info with you for two reasons:
1) Some uninformed consumers may errantly assume this material is motor oil in their coolant from a blown heat gasket, causing them to perform a costly motor teardown that is completely unnecessary.
2) There may be consumers who use Red Line Water Wetter before using Purple Ice. We certainly don't want them to think that Ice caused this. For this reason, I think our research on this subject may prove helpful at some point.
We have full documentation to back all of this up. And of course the web is filled with similar reports. If you Google the words "Water Wetter Brown" you find scores of them. Feel free to use this info however you may see fit.
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Granted, it's from some dude at Royal Purple, there may be a good reason to pick one of the alternatives to RedLine's Water Wetter product if this polymerization accusation is true. I heard a similar story from Greg Benson at BBR regarding not using Water Wetter and choosing the Royal Purple Ice instead.
So, in addition to an extraction vent on my hood and override switches for both my radiator fans, I'm going to run 80/20 water/coolant ratio plus the Purple Ice stuff in my car at the next track day and see if I can get my temps under control.
I think my biggest issue is that there's simply too much crap in front of my radiator hurting cooling efficiency. Sure, I've got a large Koyo radiator, but there's also a big intercooler and a giant oil cooler in front of it. So when I've got the best airflow (going down a long straight) I'm also heating the intercooler the most (high boost).
The good news is that, as opposed to years past, when I run a cool down lap the car actually cools down, and while my water temps are insane (pushing 230-240F... it's hard to tell since it's off the gauge
), my oil temps are stable around 245F even when the water is too hot. So, I think I'm close to being able to get more than one hot lap out of the car at a time. Then again, it was in the 80's at the last track day... if it's 100F out at the event at the end of the month, nothing may work.. not even a V-mount radiator/intercooler.
