Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dean
Stating it doesn't make it true. Your entire premise is that the extra time Ed spent on Cody's tune was unnecessary. How else would you frame your comments?
My point is, why weren't you done in an hour or two? You must have been wasting time by your premise.
These are directly correlated discussions about tuning IMHO and all I'm saying is that from my logical perspective, you have conflicting points. ESX many hours of tuning/dyno time = value, Cody's hours of tuning/street dyno = no value... The hypocrisy is only a added benefit.
|
Dean, are you intentionally misreading my statments just to start an argument? How about instead of making up what I mean, you actually respond to what I typed.
Go ahead and quote every word in this post where I got back into the dead horse beating that is road tuning.
Then explain to me how my claim that the time at ESX had greater
monetary value has anything to do with the discussion regarding the time vs. quality discussion we were having. And for the record, my tune took a long time because it was the 1st time the tuner there had ever attempted to make a fuel/timing map that would work with the stock boost and a high boost map. Imagine that, inexperience caused a tuner to take a longer time!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dean
There are hundreds of individual numbers in the tables we are talking about. Yes, there are tools to allow you to "smooth" the numbers and manipulate many at a time, but in my limited experienced the scale of what we are talking about could easily take hours optimize. I am not talking about tuning for the last .1 HP. this is about optimizing the base maps so that all the entries in the dynamic maps remain as close to zero as possible, and the car is drivable, and response is smooth and predictable under all conditions.
The slight differences between intake 1, and intake 2, even the same model from the same manufacturer might have enough difference that in an ideal base maps, 10% of the numbers might be off by single digit numbers. Making these minor adjustments is not fighting the ECU, it is allowing it the most accurate starting point to learn from, and give it the maximum ability to adjust as needed. If your base map is off by 3%, and the maximum dynamic adjustment is 5%, you may end up in conditions in which the remaining 2% does not permit the ECU to dynamically correct enough. And again, a significant number of these numbers do not necessarily change from pull to pull, so dyno consistency in meaningless. I would bet that to really do a good job, you need to change how the dyno is loading the car between runs so you actually exercise a significant portion of the maps, and not just a WOT line across them.
It's entirely possibly I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, or I might be blowing this out of proportion, but I believe more time tweaking has at least some merit.
|
As far as the rest of this... I'm not gonna bother attempting to discuss it in the manner presented. Neither of us know enough about the specifics of tuning to continue this argument with those numbers since you're attempting to attribute percentages that you've just pulled out of your ass as evidence for your point. What really is the percentage of adjustment the ECU can achieve? Can it even be logically quantified as a percentage... what's it a percentage of? How many numbers don't change from pull to pull on the dyno, how does that have any corelation to dyno consistancy? If you'd like to get into the details of tuning with me, we're both going to need a shitload more education on the topic, since what you're suggesting is nothing more than a projection of how you think tuning works without any real evidence to back it up.
Besides, my point wasn't intended to be so specific. I'm simply arguing that spending a really long time on the fine details doesn't seem to be a productive use of time. Hell, if it's free tuning time, then by all means, but if I'm paying for that time, I'd rather save my $200 for a track day and improve the driver. Emperical evidence says that the going time needed for a good tune on a bolt-on car is about an hour. I haven't heard about cars that make an extra 30hp because the tuner took twice as long.