[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

Im not forcing anyone to do anything. Im just questioning what you have against racing on a public road. Even if there's a 0% chance of you endangering someone else.

You're potentially forcing someone else to deal with the consequences of your mistakes. How many people have been killed or hurt or maybe just lost a care they really cared about because of someone else's decision to have an impromptu street race with the idiot in the next lane who revved on him? If you were to cause death, injury, or maybe something as slight as a dent in someone else's car, how can you justify your actions as safe or appropriate? Worse yet, what if the guy you race because he revved on you is 17 and doesn't know shit about car control yet, and you watch him bury his car into a freeway overpass, and know that he died because you couldn't bear the thought of backing down, or losing face, even though you are the only one who would ever know about it? Anybody who willingly engages in any contest of speed anywhere but a dragstrip or racetrack is willfully ignoring the potential conqequences of his or her actions. In other words, you are described by the scariest word in the US legal system- negligent.

Originally Posted by sp00ln

I agree with all of you guys when you say its dangerous and that there are inherent risks involved, but it goes the same for the track. Yes, it is an added bonus if ambulances are standing by though.

Yes, there are inherent risks involved in taking your street car out to do hot laps on a racetrack. I would even go so far as to say the bad things that could potentially happen are even more likely to occur to any of us than the risks you take when street racing. But there are huge differences between the set of risks we take on the racetrack and the ones we would take by street racing. The chance of death (to anyone potentially involved) or even significant injury, is pretty minor. The risk of damage to our cars is substantial, but I bet that on an individual basis, every active member of this board knows people who have either wrecked a car or had their car damaged by people street racing or otherwise screwing off on public roads, while few, if any of us, have direct knowledge of someone damaging his own or someone else's car during an organized track day. I think the only incidents I know of myself are a few bent wheels and a cracked windshield from off-track excursions, and Nate's Legacy going into the wall on the back straight at Thunder Hill... while he was at a drift event.

Originally Posted by sp00ln

I dont know, I'll drop the sore spot. And sorry for smart remark. I dont know. I just dont feel anyone should judge somone by whether or not they street race. If someone feels to put their life at a greater risk for 8 seconds, then thats their choice. People do it all the time - snowboarding/skiing, skydiving, cliff jumping, football, gymnastics, track drag racing, road racing, etc. Do you guys do none of these things?

Of course we do those things. We all have done and continue to particpate in activities much riskier than our track and autocross activities. That's part of our point- we're not risking much other than the time and money we've invested into our cars on the track. And far more importantly, everyone involved in the activities and sports you listed- everyone!- is involved and aware of their own risk as a participant. How many inoocent bystanders ever died in skydiving or bungee jumping accidents?

Originally Posted by sp00ln

However, I tend to believe I'm not outnumbered on this board when it comes to who street races and who doesn't.

Quite wrong. While there's certainly a strong minority of people here who have participated in the occasional impromptu stop light race or freeway race, you could easily count on one hand the people here who still do it, and even fewer who condone it. And I don't think anyone else on the board actively participates in street racing or thinks it's a worthwhile pursuit.

Originally Posted by sp00ln

And the legality of it - I bet I'm more legal most of the time than most of the people on this board. Sure I tend to speed sometimes in competition against another motor-vehicle, but I still run smog legal. I have a working CAT and I've never removed a cat and not replaced it with another functioning cat. Most of the people on this board would be fined.

Wow... just wow. Yes, I can't believe that any of us criminals have even dared to suggest that your morals are anything less than saintly.

Originally Posted by sp00ln

As far as this group of motor enthusiast goes, I have the highest respect for you guys. You're well organized, nationally recognized and have a group of SMART people. Even though you guys play it by the books a little too much, I still like ya. I guess that's why I hang around here even though I'm not really wanted.

Actually, I can't think of anything other than the street racing debate that gets any of us really arguing with you. It's fun having a DSM guy around who knows how to play up to the DSM/Subaru rivalry without getting offended or offending anyone else over it. Nobody is universally lauded on any internet forum of any kind, least of all myself, but I don't think anybody here would feel particularly elated if you decided not to post here anymore. Don't confuse dissent with dislike, especially on the intarweb.