[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

I did not start this thread to debate a four+ year old compound that has changed at least twice since then and it's effects. That compound is ancient history, lets drop it.

Holy mother of god.

From my 1st post in this thread:

Originally Posted by sperry

Greens have an old reputation for ruining rotors, even on the street. I'm not sure if EBC has properly addressed the problem.

Then a bit later:

Originally Posted by sperry

Has EBC addressed the excessive rotor wear issue with the greens, or not?

Then the answer from the guy who's business it is to know:

Originally Posted by SpeedToy

I dont believe they have

If you've got contrary information, by all means let us have it. I'd be happy to drop the issue if it was in fact a non-issue.

Originally Posted by Dean

I stand by the EBC products I have listed, and unless you have recent personal experience with them, I would appreciate it if you left ancient heresay out of this.

My argument is not hearsay, I'm stating that the EBC's have a *reputation* for eating rotors, plus the rotors I saw that came off your EBC shod car were worse than any of the rotors that have come off mine.

But, hearsay or not, if the problem hasn't been addressed, the pads your recommending have a well known reputation for sucking. Once again, just because you don't think you have problems doesn't invalidate the argument that many others have had issues, it's only contrary data. As I see it the count is 1 for and at least 20 against.

Personally I don't have experience with the EBC's because I won't use a product that has so many people telling me to stay clear of it. Your claims to the contrary aren't enough to change my mind (especially since I still think the damage to your old rotors was exaserbated by the greens). What I need is evidence that EBC has fixed the problem and that many people are having success with the pads. And even then, I'm plenty happy w/ the Ultimates and R4's, so I probably still won't change my pads of choice.

Originally Posted by Dean

And as I said, rotors crack due to heat. At least one of mine was still above minimum thickness, there just wasn't enough depth left to turn them.

Cracked <> ruined. Most of the time, cracks are on the surface only, and do not penetrate the rotor, and can be turned, or ground away.

Surface cracks are a common brake rotor phenomenon. IMHO a set of R4s, etc. would have done the same thing under those conditions.

Grooved or not, under minimum thickness = ruined. Your rotors were 2mm under minimum, so what pads were you using? Those are what I would refer to as rotor eaters.

A rotor that's damaged to the point where it may have a catastrophic failure at any moment is a "ruined" rotor. Cracks in the rotor indicate metal fatigue, which means the rotors have exceeded their design limits and could fail. If you have the material to turn the rotors clean, you might be okay, but if we're talking about the cracks I remember seeing on your rotors a while back, I double they'd be turnable even on fresh rotors.

Cracks are another concern with rotors. Cracks can form as a result of poor metallurgy in the rotor (too hard and too brittle because the rotor was allowed to cool too quickly during the casting process), and from excessive heat. Some minor surface cracking is tolerable and can often be removed by resurfacing, but large cracks or deep cracks weaken the rotor and increase the risk of catastrophic failure. So cracked rotors should always be replaced.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2003/bf10312.htm

However, being 2mm under minimum is probably not in danger of failure if the rotor is still smooth, it's just used up. Granted the rotor won't be as good a heat sink, and granted it should be replaced ASAP, but it's not at risk for catastrophic failure IMO. Talk to me about a rotor 5 or 6 mm under minimum and you'll get a different opinion.

So anyway, I really don't have that much at stake in this thread. Like I said, I'm happy w/ my pads. But there seem to be a truckload of people on this board recently that don't like to do their own research and instead ask people like you and me "what should I do" and take our suggestions as gospel. If you're going to recommend something, please represent it fairly. You and I both know about the EBC's reputation... for the sake of those that haven't been around for the last 5 years, at least mention it so I don't feel obligated to get into these rediculous arguments. A simple "EBC was known to be harsh on rotors, but I haven't seen that personally, perhaps you should do some research" in your recommendation would suffice instead of going off the deepend with me trying to somehow prove that the EBC's don't have a bad reputation.