Shouldn't this be on Ripley's ??

[BOO]

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/show...aced+and+*SRT*

[STIwish]

As much as I'd want to call bullshit... I respect Nathan too much to not believe him, especially when they put out mad tight parts for both the WRX/STI and the Evo... It doesnt seem like a sales pitch to me... but man, that is scary.

[tysonK]

it's not that scary.

the neon is fast yah.

I would always rather have an EVO or STi than a neon even if it runs 10's and does the slalom at 90mph. The thorn in their side "It's still a NEON." really is something.

I have a feeling if Dodge did a complete overhaul of the NEON(body wise) and only called it the SRT4 and not NEON it would help the image.

There is a reason the EVO and STi are 30k cars.

[sperry]

Um... yea for street racing?

Basically what I learned fromt that "evaluation" is that if you throw money at cars they go faster in a straight line. Which is true for any car... a school bus with enough money into it would be faster. And doing this comparison on the street makes it all but useless information, since you can't repeat the conditions... not to mention the shear idiocy of racing an STi up to 5th gear... what is that, like 120 mph?

The best part is a Spec Miata would hand all three of those cars a big helping of their own ass on any race track or autoX course.

And this kills me:

1 SRT-4 + a few modifications = 1 dead stock EVO.
1 SRT-4 + a few modifications = 1 dead stock STI.
1 SRT-4 + a few modifications = a drivers race with an STI + an exhaust system.
1 SRT-4 + an n2o kit = one crazy rocket ship.

Of course an SRT-4 with mods is as fast as stock STis and EVOs. But you're not stock anymore!! How is that any sort of comparison? If you're gonna compare mods, then run that SRT-4 against a Vishnu Stage 1 STi.

Everyone knows the SRT-4 is a fast-ass car. I'm not a fan of FWD so I don't want one, but I can recognize that that Neon is a cool car, with tons of potential! And frankly, all the EVO and STi/WRX owners I know all feel the same way. But it seems that the SRT-4 owners have a big ego/inferiority complex. Basicaly, that post seems like SRT-4 owners trying to convince themselves there cars are fast. Aparently they're they feel they need to prove themselves against EVO and STi owners... which I guess is why SRT-4 owners have a reputation for pulling crazy shit on the streets all the time.

[STIwish]

Since when is racing to 120 idiocy? and since when are track results the only ones that matter? People race on the street, its a fact, the comparison isnt necessarily a scientific one, but for those stop light and freeway racers out there, they are the ones that count.

[ArthurS]

Originally Posted by STIwish

Since when is racing to 120 idiocy? and since when are track results the only ones that matter? People race on the street, its a fact, the comparison isnt necessarily a scientific one, but for those stop light and freeway racers out there, they are the ones that count.

Track results are the only ones that matter. At the track, you are much less likely to kill someone. Being stupid on a unprepared street could cause a death or a large accident to people that may not want to even be involved in your street racing. I could post countless stories of kids dying by doing extreme amounts of speeds on roads that were not tracks.

Plain and simple point - Street racing is for idiots. There are track events somewhere every weekend when you can take out all the need for speed.

I actually remember a certain member of the group that lost his WRX due to racing.

[ZER026D]

I might have had somthing to do with that. Well maybe not he was trying to race me I am just glad I am faster than Magnaflow.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by STIwish

Since when is racing to 120 idiocy?

If it's on the street, *always*. There's only 1 road in the world that speed like is legal (the Autobahn) and even there, if you're racing, you're an idiot with no respect for your life or those around you.

Originally Posted by STIwish

and since when are track results the only ones that matter?

Since a track is the only place where racing is legal. If street racing result were considered "legit", it would kill people.

Originally Posted by STIwish

People race on the street, its a fact, the comparison isnt necessarily a scientific one, but for those stop light and freeway racers out there, they are the ones that count.

It's also a fact that people murder, steal, lie, etc. Just because it's done doesn't make it acceptable. People that street race and somehow believe there's some redeaming value to it are wasting their lives. Not only are they risking death or jail, they are also wasting their potential to succeed in real racing. Like Art said, there are plenty of legitimate racing outlets. Hell, I think I have like two or three free weekends over the next 10 months, the rest have an AutoX, or race already scheduled. For the price of all that N2O street racers buy, they could be autocrossing every weekend or dragging at a real strip, and could potentially get noticed and picked up to drive professionally. Take a list of famous race car drivers, and find me one that got picked up due to his "mad street skillz".

Keep it on the track.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

There's also a question of scale... I'm sure almost all of us have at one point or another gunned it at a green light against some other fast car sitting next to us. Even those of us who dislike street racing have probably done this at some point in the past. If you hit it through a couple of gears to have some fun that's one thing... an NHRA-style launch and hammer down through 4 or 5 gears to 100+mph is quite another.

And on the subject of the SRT-4, I don't care what the factory or tuners do to it, it's still a Neon. A nose-heavy, FWD buzzbox that all other things being equal, will never be as fast around any kind of track as an equivalent RWD car with a better weight distribution. From a design standpoint, FWD is not optimal for any kind of performance or competitive driving, whether it be road racing, rallying, or even the Street Stunnaz' favorite - drag racing. Sinking money into a FWD car is just polishing a turd.

[tysonK]

street racing

maybe should just be called

street speeding

[BOO]

:shock: WOW !! A controversial Thread nonetheless !!!

[ShawnS]

Originally Posted by sperry

Take a list of famous race car drivers, and find me one that got picked up due to his "mad street skillz".

R.J. DeVera.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by ShawnS

R.J. DeVera.

Who? He must be real famous, since I don't know who he is. What series does he race in?

I'm gonna take a guess that he's a drifter or something... D1GP? A Google search for his name only pulls up body kits and car parts sporting his name, which makes me think he's more of a "famous street racer" than a "famous race car driver".

Either way, my point is you'll never see a Tommi Makanen or a Michael Schumacher or (dare I say it) a Jeff Gordon that came from street racing. There are no household names that learned their skill on the street. To get into the higher eschelons of racing, you need a legitimate competition background. I'm not saying there's no skillful drivers in street racing, I'm saying those people are wasting their skill on the streets because it'll never amount to much more than hustling for cash or pinks.

[ShawnS]

Originally Posted by sperry

Who? He must be real famous, since I don't know who he is. What series does he race in?

I'm gonna take a guess that he's a drifter or something... D1GP? A Google search for his name only pulls up body kits and car parts sporting his name, which makes me think he's more of a "famous street racer" than a "famous race car driver".

Either way, my point is you'll never see a Tommi Makanen or a Michael Schumacher or (dare I say it) a Jeff Gordon that came from street racing. There are no household names that learned their skill on the street. To get into the higher eschelons of racing, you need a legitimate competition background. I'm not saying there's no skillful drivers in street racing, I'm saying those people are wasting their skill on the streets because it'll never amount to much more than hustling for cash or pinks.

http://www.rojawheels.com/garage/rj_bio.asp

Not the most intruiging of bio's. I doubt Tommi Makanen or Michael Schumacher are household names. If you want, I can get a list of names that got their careers jump started by learning on the street. Most of todays great drifters learned and honed their skills on the streets of Japan.

[STIwish]

Scott, get with the real world here for a second, not everyone can go out and auto-x every other weekend, nor can they hit the track whenever they feel the need. Im glad you are in a position where you can get ur kicks on the track, but some of us will never be in that position. I am not saying 'street race because there are no other options' im saying that not everyone wants to be an auto-x class winner, or even a professional driver. Most of us simply dont give a fuck and want the adrenaline rush that can most easily be obtained stop light to stop light or at 120+ mph on the freeway (or in my case coming back from 4th Turn wasted off my ass). You need to get off your soap box because its really beginning to piss people off, I dont care how much you end up racing on the track, that doesnt make you the end all of opinions on what we should and should not do.

Keep it on the track can kiss my fat ass, ofcourse I live far enough away from one that i dont have to worry about it getting even close. I dont give a fuck if it IS the only place its legal, the street is where a daily driver spends 95% or more of its time, and to me, thats what counts, not hot laps at Buttonwillow or Thunderhill by professional drivers, not IHRA sanctioned drag racing at LA Raceway, just the adrenaline rush gained by a 0-120+mph run or any other 'Street Stunnaz' move.

And Art, its not cool to be a hypocrite, if i remember correctly, we've blown through traffic at 100+mph speeds playing tag, as well as a few other encounters as mentioned above.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by STIwish

Scott, get with the real world here for a second, not everyone can go out and auto-x every other weekend, nor can they hit the track whenever they feel the need. Im glad you are in a position where you can get ur kicks on the track, but some of us will never be in that position. I am not saying 'street race because there are no other options' im saying that not everyone wants to be an auto-x class winner, or even a professional driver. Most of us simply dont give a fuck and want the adrenaline rush that can most easily be obtained stop light to stop light or at 120+ mph on the freeway (or in my case coming back from 4th Turn wasted off my ass). You need to get off your soap box because its really beginning to piss people off, I dont care how much you end up racing on the track, that doesnt make you the end all of opinions on what we should and should not do.

Keep it on the track can kiss my fat ass, ofcourse I live far enough away from one that i dont have to worry about it getting even close. I dont give a fuck if it IS the only place its legal, the street is where a daily driver spends 95% or more of its time, and to me, thats what counts, not hot laps at Buttonwillow or Thunderhill by professional drivers, not IHRA sanctioned drag racing at LA Raceway, just the adrenaline rush gained by a 0-120+mph run or any other 'Street Stunnaz' move.

And Art, its not cool to be a hypocrite, if i remember correctly, we've blown through traffic at 100+mph speeds playing tag, as well as a few other encounters as mentioned above.

Nice attitude. That's why your car is wrecked, and the rest of us are out playing on the track and autocrossing and listening to you bitch about how you can't afford a car to race with us.

The real problem with street racing or excessive driving on the street, is that you're risking other people's lives. I'm not one to care what people do with their own lives, since that's their perogative. However, once your actions enfringe on my rights, I've got every right to bitch about it.

120mph on the freeway makes the freeway more dangerous to me. Driving drunk makes the streets more dangerous to me. Fuck you if you truely believe those are acceptable ways to get your kicks, at the expense to my saftey and the lives of everyone around you.

I'm "on my soapbox" because I see people doing stupid stuff like that every day. To be honest, I think we're lucky that no one in the club has gotten themselves killed yet. We've already had one car impounded for excessive speed, one person get a DUI/wreck, and you totalled your WRX driving beyond your limits. If my constant bitching about safe driving prevents one of us from killing themselves, then I'll take all the verbal abuse anyone wants to pass my way for being anti-street racing.

In the "real world", people fucking DIE. And that is the world I'm living in. Feel free to disagree with me, but don't come around here expecting to convince me that there's ever a good reason to drive the way you're suggesting. If you can't get to a track, then you don't get to drive agressively. That's how it works.

If performance driving is truely something that you wish to do, you can find a way. I don't believe in this "I'm too far away", or "I can't afford it" or "it doesn't mean anything unless it's on the street" BS. Where there's a will there's a way. Hell, I've even seen offers from people in the club to help get you a ride for next season's autoX... it's not like you're out of options. ('Course I don't know how many people would be willing to co-drive a car with you now, after you piss all over the sport) Besides, "keep it on the track" doesn't mean you necessarily have to be running for points or anything. Plenty of people hit the track simply for the adrenaline rush... for example the two guys at Reno-Fernley on their bikes today.

Just know that pulling 'Street Stunnaz' moves or drinking behind the wheel aren't acceptable to me, or the vast majority of people in SECCS. Nobody here wants to go to a funeral.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by ShawnS

I doubt Tommi Makanen or Michael Schumacher are household names.

They are everywhere else in the world besides this country.

Originally Posted by STIwish

Most of us simply dont give a fuck and want the adrenaline rush that can most easily be obtained stop light to stop light or at 120+ mph on the freeway (or in my case coming back from 4th Turn wasted off my ass).

If that's really the way you think, you deserve whatever happens to you - none of it will be good, either. Do me a favor and stay off the road when I'm driving on it.

Originally Posted by sperry

We've already had one car impounded for excessive speed, one person get a DUI/wreck,

Who did these happen to?

[ArthurS]

Originally Posted by STIwish

And Art, its not cool to be a hypocrite, if i remember correctly, we've blown through traffic at 100+mph speeds playing tag, as well as a few other encounters as mentioned above.

Live and learn. I would have figured that you would have realized that with tickets and a accident and now no car. After going to track events, its pointless to street-race. I get all the adrenaline in need there.

To go to a autocross on the weekend, it will cost 20-30$ plus a little gas. If I remember right, you would spend more then that in gas to come to a meet or for the beer at the bar.

True, like Austin said, I have lined up at a light and dicked around with the car beside me, but NEVER past reckless speeds. I have on the highway done speeds ovr 100 mph, on the way out to frenchmans or vegas due to the fact that if I crash, I will only hurt myself, not innocent people.

[dknv]

Originally Posted by STIwish

Most of us simply dont give a fuck and want the adrenaline rush that can most easily be obtained stop light to stop light or at 120+ mph on the freeway (or in my case coming back from 4th Turn wasted off my ass).

Ooh, Realize that not only do people here want to be safe from speeding or reckless or drunk drivers (i.e. I've got kids to think about who are sometimes in the car with me too, and I might as well die if something happened to one of them), but we don't want to see you hurt yourself either. Life is Precious. I'm not going to knock what you may want to do, but please be encouraged to do it on a closed road.

[ArthurS]

Here is a new highlight for everyone to think about. After researching the track day insurance questions that have bene floating about, I read about the racing rules and what is not covered.

Any property damage, bodily injury, personal injury, loss or damage to your vehicle "arising out of the participation in any prearranged, organized, or SPONTANEOUS:"

This meaning, if you do something stupid while street racing, like hitting a pole or someone else, the insurance company does not have to pay out. This would be especially bad for you when you cause injury to someone else, because the insurance company does not have to pay for their injuries. So now, whomever you injury, has to sue you directly to obtain money for their injuries. This means attached wages, loss of assets, etc.

[MikeSTI]

Originally Posted by ArthurS

Here is a new highlight for everyone to think about. After researching the track day insurance questions that have bene floating about, I read about the racing rules and what is not covered.

Any property damage, bodily injury, personal injury, loss or damage to your vehicle "arising out of the participation in any prearranged, organized, or SPONTANEOUS:"

This meaning, if you do something stupid while street racing, like hitting a pole or someone else, the insurance company does not have to pay out. This would be especially bad for you when you cause injury to someone else, because the insurance company does not have to pay for their injuries. So now, whomever you injury, has to sue you directly to obtain money for their injuries. This means attached wages, loss of assets, etc.

that would cost a lot more then auto-x :wink:

[ArthurS]

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

that would cost a lot more then auto-x :wink:

What this also means is we aren't covered when we auto-x. But SCCA provides a insurance poicy for you that covers bodily injury. Unfortunatly, they do not offer one that covers your vehicle. So when you auto-x, you risk any damage to your vehicle which will be paid out of your pocket.

[MattR]

Originally Posted by ArthurS

Any property damage, bodily injury, personal injury, loss or damage to your vehicle "arising out of the participation in any prearranged, organized, or SPONTANEOUS:"

This meaning, if you do something stupid while street racing, like hitting a pole or someone else, the insurance company does not have to pay out. This would be especially bad for you when you cause injury to someone else, because the insurance company does not have to pay for their injuries. So now, whomever you injury, has to sue you directly to obtain money for their injuries. This means attached wages, loss of assets, etc.

That's enough to ruin your whole life financially...And in my case, I would lose my job if I lost my license, so that's reason enough for me to be safe on the street. I couldn't imagine the hardship someone would go through trying to pay for an accident out of pocket because their insurance compnay denied coverage because of street racing :shock:

[STIwish]

I got my point across. The above post was made to ruffle feathers, and to ofcourse be the devils advocate.

As for my car being wrecked, my accident was minor, infact I think yours was actually worse Art, the ONLY reason I dont have my car is because of stupid mistakes I made OUTSIDE of the car If you actually listened to anything I said Scott, you should realize this,

My point is, that everyone has their own way of doing things, and some of us can not always keep it on the track. Not all of our ideas are welcome in this club, if its not racing on the track or on an airfield and going for the fastest times possible, it becomes completely irrelavent to the majority of this group. This is simply my opinion, that its turned very elitist minus a few members. I hang around here because I consider many of you guys my friends, but man, some of the egos really need to go.

I dont think im the one with the shitty attitude when it comes down to it.

If you have anything else to say to me directly, take it to PM, as I dont want to continue this on the board.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

You know, the more you open your mouth on this subject the more I'm glad I live several hundred miles away from you - so I (and my wife) don't have to drive on the same roads that you do.

There's only one word to describe someone with your apparent attitude towards not only balls-out racing on public roads, but driving while "wasted" - ASSCLOWN.

At this point you've earned yourself a nomination for the 2004 AssClown Of The Year Award.

If you keep up your reckless driving, you'll probably be up for a Darwin Award as well.