Anyone back from the track day yet?

[Kostamojen]

I was so upset today about not being there it wasnt funny...

How did it go? Me want pics!!!

[MikeSTI]

just got home and out of the shower

I dont know what everyone else did sence they all just left

[ryan4601]

track day was awesome thanks too everyone who helped to organize and set up the whole thing. i spent the day learning about my cars limits.....i learned that i cant pull on a ZO6 on a straight....they are beasts....but not as beast as that supercharged viper....

ryan

[Evo Mike]

the track day was great. Definetly worth my 200$. My instructor was great and i think the school really helped me get a feeling for how the evo responds and handles. All in all, great and SAFE day.

btw, The gas that they were filling up out there was 100 UNleaded right?

[MikeK]

Thanks to everyone who was involved in organising today, it was awesome. I was amazed at how much faster everyone in the novice group was going by the end of the day. Definately looking forward to the next one.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

just got home and out of the shower

I dont know what everyone else did sence they all just left

Sorry Mike... I thought Scott, Debbie and I were the last ones out of the track. And at the Pilot, I asked if we should wait for you and your mom, but somebody said you guys weren't going to dinner and people were already waiting for us at the restaurant... I'm very Sorry if that wasn't the case, it would have been great if you two could have joined us.

[MikeSTI]

Originally Posted by Dean

Sorry Mike... I thought Scott, Debbie and I were the last ones out of the track. And at the Pilot, I asked if we should wait for you and your mom, but somebody said you guys weren't going to dinner and people were already waiting for us at the restaurant... I'm very Sorry if that wasn't the case, it would have been great if you two could have joined us.

its cool Dean just razzen because no one has posted pics yet

[sybir]

Track day was dope. Thanks to scott and Matt for getting it all set up. I just got home after a blitz down the hill; it's true, the advance multipliers make cars get all freaky up in there; my car is running like a raped ape after being up there for a couple days. I made it back in 90 minutes form Scott's house

[Kostamojen]

Lance already posted 2 vids! http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70898

[sp00ln]

Originally Posted by sybir

it's true, the advance multipliers make cars get all freaky up in there; my car is running like a raped ape after being up there for a couple days.

Advanced multipliers? What are you talking about?


The track day sounded like a blast. Im way jealous.

[Libila]

Looks, and sounds like it was alot of fun. I wish I could have had something worth racing. Maybe next time. Im glad everyone had a fun, safe day.

[sybir]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

Advanced multipliers? What are you talking about?


The track day sounded like a blast. Im way jealous.

Ignition timing advance curves. Subarus are hypersensistive to altitude, fuel, alignment of moon and stars, etc. It isn't as easy to demonstrate on an N/A car, but the ECU re-learns, and when I'm up in the thinner air, it cuts back fuel becuase there's less 02. That means, as I come down the hill into sea-level stuff, my car leans out for a while until the ECU relearns down here again. When a car is as underpowered as my wagon, you notice little differences....

Make sense?
I'm not sure how DSM's handle airflow metering and timing changes, so the process might go a little differently, but you'll get the same result.

[sp00ln]

Originally Posted by sybir

Ignition timing advance curves. Subarus are hypersensistive to altitude, fuel, alignment of moon and stars, etc. It isn't as easy to demonstrate on an N/A car, but the ECU re-learns, and when I'm up in the thinner air, it cuts back fuel becuase there's less 02. That means, as I come down the hill into sea-level stuff, my car leans out for a while until the ECU relearns down here again. When a car is as underpowered as my wagon, you notice little differences....

Make sense?
I'm not sure how DSM's handle airflow metering and timing changes, so the process might go a little differently, but you'll get the same result.

Yeah, makes sense. The "multipliers" is what through me off.

[sybir]

Threw me off too, it was late
I may be confusing multiplier with modifier, I'm still narcoleptic.

Basically, Reno cars are gifted when they come down here

[Dean]

Originally Posted by sybir

Threw me off too, it was late
I may be confusing multiplier with modifier, I'm still narcoleptic.

Basically, Reno cars are gifted when they come down here

Until they generate enough knock to cause the ECU to "learn", and reduce the multiplier instead of just retarding the timing as it does on single instances of knock.

So as long as you drive around without to much demand for high boost/torque, and making knock, the car will feel pepier at partial throttle/boost. If you drive it hard, it will quickly learn not to advance the timing tha far in the first place, and you will be back to "normal" for your altitude/octane.

[sybir]

Exactly, which is why Matt dynod so high the first time, because he was following down the mountain and taking it easy, then only romped on while it was on the rollers.

[Kevin M]

Awesome active ignition timing tech

[sp00ln]

Originally Posted by Dean

Until they generate enough knock to cause the ECU to "learn", and reduce the multiplier instead of just retarding the timing as it does on single instances of knock.

Do WRX's have knock sensors? Im sure they do, right? If they do, your car should NEVER run well with high amounts of knock, and in the case of knock, you'll timing will be retarded.

And yes, my car pulls so much harder at sea level than up here.... damnit.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

Do WRX's have knock sensors? Im sure they do, right? If they do, your car should NEVER run well with high amounts of knock, and in the case of knock, you'll timing will be retarded.

And yes, my car pulls so much harder at sea level than up here.... damnit.

"My car's knocking is retarded."

The point is that if you drive a Subaru up at high altitude, the lack of O2 means the ECU learns to advance the timing/lean out the fuel to stay stoic. Then, if you take a leaned out car (aka a car who's advance multiplier is high) back down to sea level, the car will run lean, making extra power, until the knock sensor starts telling the ECU to back the timing off and add fuel.

Normally if a "mountain" car gets driven down to sea level, the ECU is adapting on the drive so the effect isn't that pronounced. But if you take it easy on the drive, or say, trailer the car down the hill, the 1st time you get on it at sea level the car will not only make more power than it does at altitude, it will also make more power than it will after the ECU re-learns sea level timing/fueling.

That's why Matt's STi put down over 230hp at the wheels in Sac, which is way more than the local STi's were putting down... he had the "high-altitude mod". The only problem is that after a while the ECU will correct itself and the car will slow down... plus, there's the chance the car could blow itself up down there if you got a bad tank of gas or something, and drove around like a maniac.

[MattR]

Originally Posted by sperry

...plus, there's the chance the car could blow itself up down there if you got a bad tank of gas or something, and drove around like a maniac.

hmmm... Like in Livermore?

[Kevin M]

Advance multiplier doesn't actually affect the fuel mapping. That comes strictly from O2 sensor feedback. Less air teaches the car to run less fuel under any given load cell in the map. Drive down the hill and you outrun the O2 sensor learning, effectively leaning out the car a little bit.

Advance multiplier is a fraction that determines how much timing advance from the "learned" table gets added to the "base" table. So in cell X of the base map you might have 12 degrees of advance, and the corresponding cell in the learned map might have 8 more. If the car isn't knocking and the multiplier gets all the way up to 16, you'll get all 8 degrees of advance from that cell. If the car thinks the fuel is a bit lower octane because of knock sensor feedback, it reduces the multiplier, and you get that number divided by 16 times the amount of advance in the learning map. Short answer:

multiplier=16; 16/16*8= 8 degrees added advance

multiplier=10; 10/16*8= 5 degrees advance.

The ECU will always be looking to nudge the multiplier up because the characteristics of the EJ20 make timing advance the more important factor for power than actual boost. (IOW, it's better to add timing without knock than to add boost and pull a little timing. Hence the "MBS are bad" stance of the Subaru tuning community at large.) And in DZ's case, it wants to kick the multiplier kicking and screaming up all the time.

[sp00ln]

Yeah, but the cars will run more powerful at sea levels anyways due to the thicker air. I agree with what you all are saying, but can you also add the fact that that your car will never run good while knocking. High or low altitude, it doesn't matter.

""My car's knocking is retarded."

hahahha Im going to use that one day...

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

Yeah, but the cars will run more powerful at sea levels anyways due to the thicker air. I agree with what you all are saying, but can you also add the fact that that your car will never run good while knocking. High or low altitude, it doesn't matter.

""My car's knocking is retarded."

hahahha Im going to use that one day...

Absolutely, more air + more fuel = more power. But the beauty of higher altitudes is that you can make up partially for the lost air/fuel mixture by running more timing advance. With the lower absolute cylinder pressures up here, cars are much less knock prone. Basically it just means that turbo Subarus suffer less from "altitude sickness" than normally aspirated ones.