Coilover help! - Subaru Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras

M3n2c3 · 2005-11-08, 07:24 PM

OMG.

Cory, we've got a bit of a problem - see the attached image. I popped the hood when I got home to adjust the front dampers, and I found this. One of the bolts on the front passenger side broke - just snapped clean off at the top. It was sitting on a little ledge at the bottom of the engine bay.

What now?

MPREZIV · 2005-11-08, 07:31 PM

SHIT! ummm. . .
Options: contact manuf. and see if that stud can be replaced. they are just a pressed in stud, that should be able to be knocked out, like a wheel stud.

2: rig it. Knock out stud and put a bolt up from the bottom, and a nut on top. kinda getto, but it would work.

All I can think of really! I would think that if you're not racing, you should be okay driving that until we can get it fixed.
Let me know if you need me to do anything for you dude!

M3n2c3 · 2005-11-08, 07:36 PM

I don't have the tools to be able to rig it. . .

and I can't say I trust the other two bolts right now

M3n2c3 · 2005-11-08, 07:41 PM

They look like they're pressed in, so I suppose it'd possible to replace it. . .

Argh. I feel sick. What if another one comes off?

MPREZIV · 2005-11-08, 07:47 PM

Damn dude. I don't know. I can't think of anything to fix it any easier. Hell, I could even come down to CC if needed after work tomorrow and see what we can do. I think the only quick fix is the bolt up from the bottom. If I brought a hammer and punch, I think we could knock that sucker out and put a bolt up in there. Shit man, let me know what you need.

This sucks! I feel bad dude!

MPREZIV · 2005-11-08, 07:50 PM

Even "rig" it right now, and see if the manuf. can send a replacement stud.

Gimme a call, I'm still up obviously.

775-843-1170

M3n2c3 · 2005-11-08, 08:17 PM

Hopefully that will work as a good temp solution. And hopefully Gruppe-s will be able to get me a replacement bolt relatively quickly - at least in relation to the time it took them to actually ship me the damn set.

And at any rate, the car looks and handles great. It bounces like a mofo down the freeway, but it's lost most of the body roll. Nice and solid.

MattR · 2005-11-08, 09:03 PM

The only time I've seen that happen is when they are over tightened. What did you guys use to tighten those? However, if that were the case, it probablly would have broken when you were working on it, not while being driven. Bizarre. maybe just a faulty thread.

M3n2c3 · 2005-11-08, 09:14 PM

The rears could only have been tightened by hand, right? As far as the front goes, I don't remember. I think an airtool.

By the way, Cory - apparently they did not replace our house # after painting our front door, so finding our place will be a pain in the ass. Just give me a call when you hit Long St. and I'll stand out on the corner for you.

And can we double-check the bolts on the rears? I just wanna be sure.

MattR · 2005-11-08, 09:16 PM

Well, an air-ratchet can get at the back ones easy ( I know because I use my air ratchet on mine)...It doesn;t take much to mess up one of those studs, they do not require a lot of torque.

M3n2c3 · 2005-11-08, 09:57 PM

Theoretically, couldn't we replace the camber plate if the stud itself can't be replaced? Since the springs are separately pre-loaded, we'd just have to swap it out. . .

Just a thought. . .

sperry · 2005-11-08, 11:11 PM

1st, DON'T DRIVE ON THAT STRUT! If one of those tore off, who knows if the other's are about to go. If those all shear off, you're going to have a *mess* on your hands the 1st bump you hit. If you have to drive the car, you need to get a spring compressor and steal the top mount off your stock strut and use that temporarily.

Then, while the strut top's off, see if you can't press the broken stud out and replace it with one from a stock top mount. If they're not the same, you'll need either a replacement stud, or a whole new top mount. You might be able to get a new top mount from the manufacturer if that bolt was stripped from the factory or something.

For future reference, those bolts only need about 15 ftlbs of torque IIRC. Air tools should *not* be used to tighten those! If you did hit 'em with the impact wrench, you might want to check 'em all out and make sure the rest are okay.

M3n2c3 · 2005-11-09, 12:14 AM

I may not have the tools necessary to smack the broken bolt out of the topmount, but I do have a big-ass ratchet set.

I went ahead and checked the other bolts for the front struts. They were easy enough to break loose, and I tightened them back down gently with a hand ratchet, so they should be fine. It looks like it was just the one.

I hadn't thought of that - I dunno if the sizes match up exactly, but after eyeballing them, I'd guess that we should be able to use a bolt off of the stock topmount as a temporary placeholder until I can get a replacement.

It's not like I'm gonna be racing any time soon

MPREZIV · 2005-11-09, 07:53 AM

I'm gonna go down to CC after work today and see if we can make it safe again at least. I know those studs are pressed in, and we should be able to knock it out, and at least put a bolt and nut on there to hold that sucker in. I may even be able to get another stud to put in there, and make it like it ought to be, as long as the splines on the stock stud are the same as the Helix studs. I'll be down tonight though!

I am a firm believer in a job done right!

MPREZIV · 2005-11-09, 08:07 AM

OK, I have another factory stud, and a top bolt if needed. I just knocked out the factory stud with a brass hammer, so I don't see why we can't knock out the Helix stud with a hammer and punch, which I will be bringing with me. If the factory stud has different splines, I also have a grade 8 bolt, and nut that fits through the hole, and will come up far enough to get some good bite.

Don't worry J, we'll get this taken care of tonight!

M3n2c3 · 2005-11-09, 08:27 AM

Sweet

Don't forget to give me a call as you hit Long St. My house is numberless at the moment.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2005-11-09, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattR

The only time I've seen that happen is when they are over tightened. What did you guys use to tighten those? However, if that were the case, it probablly would have broken when you were working on it, not while being driven.

My thought as well. It won't necessarily break while you're working on it though. It could have yielded just enough to severely weaken it, and then when load was applied while driving it would pop right off.

MPREZIV · 2005-11-09, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

My thought as well. It won't necessarily break while you're working on it though. It could have yielded just enough to severely weaken it, and then when load was applied while driving it would pop right off.

It is possible. I am not trying to cast off blame. I feel really bad that it happened at all! 'Least it looks like we can fix it without a big headache.

I don't feel that they were over-tightened, but it seems that is about the only thing that could have done this. I'm always willing to own up to my come-backs though!

AtomicLabMonkey · 2005-11-09, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MPREZIV

It is possible. I am not trying to cast off blame. I feel really bad that it happened at all! 'Least it looks like we can fix it without a big headache.

I don't feel that they were over-tightened, but it seems that is about the only thing that could have done this. I'm always willing to own up to my come-backs though!

Did the manufacturer give a torque spec for those fasteners? If so, did you guys follow it? Just asking...

If no torque spec was used then I would certainly suspect over-tightening... what works on OE Subaru fasteners might not work on these parts, because aftermarket mfgrs. frequently use lower strength hardware.

sperry · 2005-11-09, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Did the manufacturer give a torque spec for those fasteners? If so, did you guys follow it? Just asking...

If no torque spec was used then I would certainly suspect over-tightening... what works on OE Subaru fasteners might not work on these parts, because aftermarket mfgrs. frequently use lower strength hardware.

The OEM torque spec is only 15 lbs... that's just "snug" with a 3/8" ratchet... they don't need to be tight, as they only have to keep the top mount from moving latterally.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2005-11-09, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

The OEM torque spec is only 15 lbs... that's just "snug" with a 3/8" ratchet... they don't need to be tight, as they only have to keep the top mount from moving latterally.

I was asking about a spec from the coil-over manufacturer, since they're the ones providing the hardware. Torque specs are based on how much preload the particular fastener being used can withstand...

sperry · 2005-11-09, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

I was asking about a spec from the coil-over manufacturer, since they're the ones providing the hardware. Torque specs are based on how much preload the particular fastener being used can withstand...

I know, I'm just saying that if the OEM rating is 15 lb/in, and the aftermarket ratings are usually less... it's very easy to over tighten those little bastards.

MPREZIV · 2005-11-09, 12:02 PM

^^^Exactly. I believe that is the problem. They did not offer any instructions, or torque specs that I saw though. In the box, all I saw was coilovers, spanner wrenches, and the little damp. adj. tools. No instructions whatsoever. My TEINs came with a whole BOOK of instructions, in Japanese! Ha Ha! Lot of good that did!

I do believe I likely overtightened these then, in that instance. My mistake, but I will personally make sure that it's corrected!

cody · 2005-11-09, 01:29 PM

Dang, I bet I overtightend the rear ones in my wagon after adding the strutbar. I'll check the torque tonight...hope I don't find a similar situation.

Dean · 2005-11-09, 01:48 PM

The typical rule of thumb on these is try and only use a ratchet as large as the bolt/stud. In this case, a 1/4" ratchet is about right, and could probably be tightened pretty hard and not get over 20 ft/lbs. With a larger rachet then the bolt, you have to be real careful on torques. It is pretty easy to put 30-40 or event 50 ft/lbs on a 3/8" ratchet. That will stretch/snap all but he strongest 4-6mm bolt/stud

2005-11-08, 07:24 PM	#1
M3n2c3 EJ205 Real Name: Jeremiah Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dayton, NV Posts: 1,888 Car: 2005 Impreza 2.5RS, 2000 Forester L Class: RNP sometimes (see motto) "Kids are ruining autocross."	Coilover help! OMG. Cory, we've got a bit of a problem - see the attached image. I popped the hood when I got home to adjust the front dampers, and I found this. One of the bolts on the front passenger side broke - just snapped clean off at the top. It was sitting on a little ledge at the bottom of the engine bay. What now? Attached Thumbnails __________________ Small red text that looks curious at first glance but is ultimately inconsequential

2005-11-08, 07:31 PM	#2
MPREZIV Token Real Name: Le Stig Afrique? Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: sitting next to a big yellow box Posts: 3,589 Car: 2001 Impreza 2.5 RS Class: 05 TDSP No, I won't work on your car. F your car*	SHIT! ummm. . . Options: contact manuf. and see if that stud can be replaced. they are just a pressed in stud, that should be able to be knocked out, like a wheel stud. 2: rig it. Knock out stud and put a bolt up from the bottom, and a nut on top. kinda getto, but it would work. All I can think of really! I would think that if you're not racing, you should be okay driving that until we can get it fixed. Let me know if you need me to do anything for you dude! __________________ "...these condoms have a topical anesthetic to reduce sensitivity, so you can last longer. What a paradox. You can't feel a thing, but you can f*ck for HOURS..."

2005-11-08, 07:36 PM	#3
M3n2c3 EJ205 Real Name: Jeremiah Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dayton, NV Posts: 1,888 Car: 2005 Impreza 2.5RS, 2000 Forester L Class: RNP sometimes (see motto) "Kids are ruining autocross."	I don't have the tools to be able to rig it. . . and I can't say I trust the other two bolts right now __________________ Small red text that looks curious at first glance but is ultimately inconsequential

2005-11-08, 07:41 PM	#4
M3n2c3 EJ205 Real Name: Jeremiah Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dayton, NV Posts: 1,888 Car: 2005 Impreza 2.5RS, 2000 Forester L Class: RNP sometimes (see motto) "Kids are ruining autocross."	They look like they're pressed in, so I suppose it'd possible to replace it. . . Argh. I feel sick. What if another one comes off? __________________ Small red text that looks curious at first glance but is ultimately inconsequential

2005-11-08, 07:47 PM	#5
MPREZIV Token Real Name: Le Stig Afrique? Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: sitting next to a big yellow box Posts: 3,589 Car: 2001 Impreza 2.5 RS Class: 05 TDSP No, I won't work on your car. F your car*	Damn dude. I don't know. I can't think of anything to fix it any easier. Hell, I could even come down to CC if needed after work tomorrow and see what we can do. I think the only quick fix is the bolt up from the bottom. If I brought a hammer and punch, I think we could knock that sucker out and put a bolt up in there. Shit man, let me know what you need. This sucks! I feel bad dude! __________________ "...these condoms have a topical anesthetic to reduce sensitivity, so you can last longer. What a paradox. You can't feel a thing, but you can f*ck for HOURS..."

2005-11-08, 07:50 PM	#6
MPREZIV Token Real Name: Le Stig Afrique? Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: sitting next to a big yellow box Posts: 3,589 Car: 2001 Impreza 2.5 RS Class: 05 TDSP No, I won't work on your car. F your car*	Even "rig" it right now, and see if the manuf. can send a replacement stud. Gimme a call, I'm still up obviously. 775-843-1170 __________________ "...these condoms have a topical anesthetic to reduce sensitivity, so you can last longer. What a paradox. You can't feel a thing, but you can f*ck for HOURS..."

2005-11-08, 08:17 PM	#7
M3n2c3 EJ205 Real Name: Jeremiah Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dayton, NV Posts: 1,888 Car: 2005 Impreza 2.5RS, 2000 Forester L Class: RNP sometimes (see motto) "Kids are ruining autocross."	Hopefully that will work as a good temp solution. And hopefully Gruppe-s will be able to get me a replacement bolt relatively quickly - at least in relation to the time it took them to actually ship me the damn set. And at any rate, the car looks and handles great. It bounces like a mofo down the freeway, but it's lost most of the body roll. Nice and solid. __________________ Small red text that looks curious at first glance but is ultimately inconsequential

2005-11-08, 09:03 PM	#8
MattR El Matador Real Name: Matt Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 10,660 Car: 2012 Toyota Tacoma Class: ?	The only time I've seen that happen is when they are over tightened. What did you guys use to tighten those? However, if that were the case, it probablly would have broken when you were working on it, not while being driven. Bizarre. maybe just a faulty thread. __________________ "Dallas..We have a problem.”

2005-11-08, 09:14 PM	#9
M3n2c3 EJ205 Real Name: Jeremiah Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dayton, NV Posts: 1,888 Car: 2005 Impreza 2.5RS, 2000 Forester L Class: RNP sometimes (see motto) "Kids are ruining autocross."	The rears could only have been tightened by hand, right? As far as the front goes, I don't remember. I think an airtool. By the way, Cory - apparently they did not replace our house # after painting our front door, so finding our place will be a pain in the ass. Just give me a call when you hit Long St. and I'll stand out on the corner for you. And can we double-check the bolts on the rears? I just wanna be sure. __________________ Small red text that looks curious at first glance but is ultimately inconsequential Last edited by M3n2c3; 2005-11-08 at 09:17 PM.

2005-11-08, 09:16 PM	#10
MattR El Matador Real Name: Matt Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 10,660 Car: 2012 Toyota Tacoma Class: ?	Well, an air-ratchet can get at the back ones easy ( I know because I use my air ratchet on mine)...It doesn;t take much to mess up one of those studs, they do not require a lot of torque. __________________ "Dallas..We have a problem.”

2005-11-08, 09:57 PM	#11
M3n2c3 EJ205 Real Name: Jeremiah Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dayton, NV Posts: 1,888 Car: 2005 Impreza 2.5RS, 2000 Forester L Class: RNP sometimes (see motto) "Kids are ruining autocross."	Theoretically, couldn't we replace the camber plate if the stud itself can't be replaced? Since the springs are separately pre-loaded, we'd just have to swap it out. . . Just a thought. . . __________________ Small red text that looks curious at first glance but is ultimately inconsequential

2005-11-08, 11:11 PM	#12
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	1st, DON'T DRIVE ON THAT STRUT! If one of those tore off, who knows if the other's are about to go. If those all shear off, you're going to have a mess on your hands the 1st bump you hit. If you have to drive the car, you need to get a spring compressor and steal the top mount off your stock strut and use that temporarily. Then, while the strut top's off, see if you can't press the broken stud out and replace it with one from a stock top mount. If they're not the same, you'll need either a replacement stud, or a whole new top mount. You might be able to get a new top mount from the manufacturer if that bolt was stripped from the factory or something. For future reference, those bolts only need about 15 ftlbs of torque IIRC. Air tools should not be used to tighten those! If you did hit 'em with the impact wrench, you might want to check 'em all out and make sure the rest are okay. __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2005-11-09, 12:14 AM	#13
M3n2c3 EJ205 Real Name: Jeremiah Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dayton, NV Posts: 1,888 Car: 2005 Impreza 2.5RS, 2000 Forester L Class: RNP sometimes (see motto) "Kids are ruining autocross."	I may not have the tools necessary to smack the broken bolt out of the topmount, but I do have a big-ass ratchet set. I went ahead and checked the other bolts for the front struts. They were easy enough to break loose, and I tightened them back down gently with a hand ratchet, so they should be fine. It looks like it was just the one. I hadn't thought of that - I dunno if the sizes match up exactly, but after eyeballing them, I'd guess that we should be able to use a bolt off of the stock topmount as a temporary placeholder until I can get a replacement. It's not like I'm gonna be racing any time soon __________________ Small red text that looks curious at first glance but is ultimately inconsequential

2005-11-09, 07:53 AM	#14
MPREZIV Token Real Name: Le Stig Afrique? Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: sitting next to a big yellow box Posts: 3,589 Car: 2001 Impreza 2.5 RS Class: 05 TDSP No, I won't work on your car. F your car*	I'm gonna go down to CC after work today and see if we can make it safe again at least. I know those studs are pressed in, and we should be able to knock it out, and at least put a bolt and nut on there to hold that sucker in. I may even be able to get another stud to put in there, and make it like it ought to be, as long as the splines on the stock stud are the same as the Helix studs. I'll be down tonight though! I am a firm believer in a job done right! __________________ "...these condoms have a topical anesthetic to reduce sensitivity, so you can last longer. What a paradox. You can't feel a thing, but you can f*ck for HOURS..."

2005-11-09, 08:07 AM	#15
MPREZIV Token Real Name: Le Stig Afrique? Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: sitting next to a big yellow box Posts: 3,589 Car: 2001 Impreza 2.5 RS Class: 05 TDSP No, I won't work on your car. F your car*	OK, I have another factory stud, and a top bolt if needed. I just knocked out the factory stud with a brass hammer, so I don't see why we can't knock out the Helix stud with a hammer and punch, which I will be bringing with me. If the factory stud has different splines, I also have a grade 8 bolt, and nut that fits through the hole, and will come up far enough to get some good bite. Don't worry J, we'll get this taken care of tonight! __________________ "...these condoms have a topical anesthetic to reduce sensitivity, so you can last longer. What a paradox. You can't feel a thing, but you can f*ck for HOURS..."

2005-11-09, 08:27 AM	#16
M3n2c3 EJ205 Real Name: Jeremiah Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dayton, NV Posts: 1,888 Car: 2005 Impreza 2.5RS, 2000 Forester L Class: RNP sometimes (see motto) "Kids are ruining autocross."	Sweet Don't forget to give me a call as you hit Long St. My house is numberless at the moment. __________________ Small red text that looks curious at first glance but is ultimately inconsequential

2005-11-09, 12:02 PM	#23
MPREZIV Token Real Name: Le Stig Afrique? Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: sitting next to a big yellow box Posts: 3,589 Car: 2001 Impreza 2.5 RS Class: 05 TDSP No, I won't work on your car. F your car*	^^^Exactly. I believe that is the problem. They did not offer any instructions, or torque specs that I saw though. In the box, all I saw was coilovers, spanner wrenches, and the little damp. adj. tools. No instructions whatsoever. My TEINs came with a whole BOOK of instructions, in Japanese! Ha Ha! Lot of good that did! I do believe I likely overtightened these then, in that instance. My mistake, but I will personally make sure that it's corrected! __________________ "...these condoms have a topical anesthetic to reduce sensitivity, so you can last longer. What a paradox. You can't feel a thing, but you can f*ck for HOURS..."

2005-11-09, 01:29 PM	#24
cody Candy Mountain Real Name: Cody Join Date: May 2005 Location: Californication Posts: 7,751 Car: 03 Pussy Wagon, now with more pink! Class: TESP OMG Internet!	Dang, I bet I overtightend the rear ones in my wagon after adding the strutbar. I'll check the torque tonight...hope I don't find a similar situation. __________________ Slow and low, that is the tempo.

2005-11-09, 01:48 PM	#25
Dean Señor Cheap Bastarde Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003 Location: $99 Tire Store Posts: 9,294 Car: $.04 STI Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.	The typical rule of thumb on these is try and only use a ratchet as large as the bolt/stud. In this case, a 1/4" ratchet is about right, and could probably be tightened pretty hard and not get over 20 ft/lbs. With a larger rachet then the bolt, you have to be real careful on torques. It is pretty easy to put 30-40 or event 50 ft/lbs on a 3/8" ratchet. That will stretch/snap all but he strongest 4-6mm bolt/stud __________________ I am a Commodore PET --- Now get off my lawn you kids...

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