I just wasted half a day.....

[rory_a]

I was researching the SCCA Solo rules, writing a long thread, copied below. Writing it as I went through the rule book.


At this point, it's worth a decent laugh

[rory_a]

Original Title:

SCCA Solo Classing/Rules are a bit fuzzy...



Original Post:

Been researching SCCA Solo Rules, Street Modified, to see if I can prep my '60 VW bug ragtop (sunroof) to be somewhat competitive. Looks like it would naturally be placed in SM as it sits (slow and handles like, well, a Volkswagen )

I'm trying to figure out these rules:

"Suspension components are unrestricted as long as they use the
original attachment points. For the purposes of this rule, “suspen-
sion” is defined as any item that is designed to move when a wheel
is deflected vertically. This includes shocks and struts, control arms,
steering knuckles, uprights, etc., but not tie rods, steering racks, and
subframes. In addition, shock absorber/strut upper mounts are to be
considered suspension components."

I have a 4" narrowed front beam, which maintains the stock-height shock mounts, and attaches to the frame via the stock frame head and bolts. Would that fit within "unrestricted as long as they use the original attachment points"???

I also have dropped spindles - the spindle is moved up 2.5", but all other steering/link pink/king pin geometry is the same. I'm thinking that also does not break this rule???



"Drivetrain and related components (induction, ignition, fuel systems,
etc.) are unrestricted except for the following limitations:

Engine block must be a production unit manufactured and badged
the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model."

Considering my car came with a 36hp, 1100+cc engine, and the 2110cc engine that I'd like to install uses a factory VW 1600 block, am I good??? Also, the stock carburetor was a 26 or 28mm throat, the new engine will have dual 44mm Weber IDFs - that's 4x44mm, am I good???



"Brakes, including calipers, caliper mounts, disks, drums, lines, backing
plates, pedals, boosters, master cylinders, handles, ABS systems,
proportioning valves, etc. are unrestricted."

I have 4-wheel discs with a dual circuit master, rather than 4-wheel drums with a single circuit master, am I good???









Eh, just read weight requirements:

RWD: 1800 lbs + 200 lbs per liter
Engine behind driver: +25 lbs per liter
Tire width 275mm or less (all): -200 lbs

Based on that, I'm looking at 1800 lbs, plus 2x200 lbs (2110cc), + 2x25 lbs, -200 (biggest I'll be able to fit is a 245/35x17 with 3" wider fiberglass fenders.

That puts me at 1800+400+50-200 = 2050 lbs. The car's about 1700 right now with all the interior, all steel, all sound deadening, etc, and would likely be under 1500 prepared. I'm out.



And the WRX is out too because of the lightened flywheel and catless downpipe. Guess I'm screwed all around. I'll run in Novice next year in the WRX and figure out what to do next.



Anyone wanna buy a fully-restored '60 ragtop bug???

[sperry]

The SM suspension rules are actually pretty simple: you can change out anything that moves during suspension deflection. You cannot change anything that doesn't move. Because a narrow front beam changes the location of the chassis side of the strut mount, it's illegal. That strut mounting point is not a moving part of the suspension, so it has to be in the factory location.

[rory_a]

I did not understand that from the rule write up, but I might not have been reading well (in a perma-pissed-off mood this week). Sounds like that would mean a standard width beam would work with dropped spindles, as the spindles move, no? I could add 2" wider fenders, which would fall under the "fender flare" rule, and have the tire clearance I need (I'm currently tucking wheel )

Still, I'd have to add 500+ lbs of ballast to meet the minimum weight qualification, that just isn't possible.




I was pretty much hoping to actually use the car at some point - I put 30 miles on it this year - from Spanish Springs to A&W for the Hot August Nights cruise night, then back home. Also didn't want to beat up on the WRX any more than I need to. Guess that's not gonna happen, and I might as well sell it with the bike and Jeep, swap the WRX's DP to a catted version, and call it a day.

[Dean]

WRX should be SM or BSP legal...

Why do they put a narrower front beam in? Tire clearance? Track car? Swing axle really isn't great for track though.

[rory_a]

The VW guys started using narrowed front beams for tire clearance/wheel fitment - not much available in 5x205 bolt pattern. Then some of us started stuffing big tires on them - mine sits on 17x7 wheels intended for a new beetle, 5x100 bolt pattern. The 205/45x17 tires run fender lip and inner fender on my car, with a 4" narrowed beam, 2" per side. The drop spindles also add about half an inch to track width each side, adding to fitment issues. I'm tucking wheel though, so that has a lot to do with fitment issues. Any higher looks the ghey though.


Swing axle and link pink beam would in fact suck for a track/auto-x car, but I figured I should put the car to some sort of use



My understanding is that STX requires a cat, and there's no way I'd be competitive for years in SM/BSP, especially with the combo of me as driver and my daily WRX as the car.

[Dean]

None of our SM cars are really competitive or fully prepared as is shown every time a real SM car shows up form Sac. Same is true for STX, so don't count on that being a great class either without the rest of the prep work.

And there has been an unofficial "SM-B" or "SM-Tier 2" for years that WRXs all compete in. and sometimes get crushed by the elusive black RS...

Run N if you are eligible, or play with everyone else in BSP or SM. The alternative is to swap the flywheel back to stock, but the WRX isn't really competitive in stock either.

Just have fun!!!! And try and get better...

[Kevin M]

The WRX is in ESP, unless I missed a FasTrack somewhere.

[van]

screw autox rules just run TSU and have fun

[cody]

ESP is where it's at.

[rory_a]

I REALLY need to get a printed version of the SCCA Solo Rule Book... searching through the 337 page pdf is overrated....


Looks like MY WRX is in ESP - Flywheel and Exhaust are open:

Exhaust manifolds and muffl er systems are free, except that they
must be quiet and terminate behind the driver.

Any metal clutch assembly, metal fl ywheel or metal torque converter
that uses the standard attachment to the crankshaft may be used.


Catted downpipe and stock flywheel would have me in STX. However, that means I can get one of those engine-to-flywheel dogleg thingies (it's a technical term):

One bolt-on torque suppression device may be used. A torque suppression
device attaches from the engine to the body, frame, or subframe
in one location

as well as engine/tranny/diff bushings, all of which I know it needs even on the street.



At the same time, the thought of continuously beating on the car that I'm going to be paying for for another 4.7 years is daunting..... I'm thinking of trading my Jeep for my brother's '03 Focus 2.0 and going for HS, maybe build it up for ST to have a bit more fun.



I do plan to stay in N as long as possible, but I now know I need to keep rules in mind for future mods, had I know about the flywheel and downpipe I would have not gotten the flywheel, and gotten a catted DP. But now that everything's installed and tuned and I'm used to it all, I'll stay where I'm at and do what I know it needs (shifter, bushings, suspension, etc.) and improve it for street driving. I got it to oversteer like crazy getting on 80 at East McCarren yesterday because of body roll, for example.

[rory_a]

And yes, before you ask, if I picked up the Focus and ran it in HS, I'd definitely be swapping tires on site.

[cody]

AutoX isn't so hard on cars. Given properly chosen and installed mods, my car has been very dependable. I'm still on the stock motor, tranny and turbo and the car's been stage II and autocrossed most of its life. It's got 125K on it now. ESP is especially easy on the car since you can't upgrade the turbo. The only mechanical issues I've had are wheel bearings.

Feel free to hit me up for any ESP advice, Mang. ST isn't popular in our region since every class can use the tire modifier in our region...usually only ST benefits from running street tires in most other regions.

[rory_a]

I'm MUCH more worried about the DRIVER breaking the car than the sport but definitely good to hear. And I'll definitely be taking you up on that offer!


On a similar but different note, how does your car do in the snow at it's ride height and camber settings? I'm getting pretty bored with the stock suspension and don't think I'll be able to wait for spring to install the RCEs

[cody]

My car is great in the snow. I have the benefit of running 16's on dedicated snows in the winter. My suspension isn't all that stiff and the Koni inserts are great on the street.

My alignment is kinda lame this year since my camber bolts are seized, but I've never had an issue running around -2 front and/or rear all year long. Kevin M. was saying the rear probably has enough neg. camber (about -2.2 IIRC) to negatively effect traction, but the front is only at about -1.2 right now.

I've always left my sways at full stiff, but I just softened them up almost as soft as they go accept on the passenger side, it was coming into contact with a lateral link so I went one hole up from full soft and I think it clears now...I should really check to make sure I haven't bent anything yet. I can't even tell that there's a difference but I haven't gotten it sideways or anything.

I had one scare on I80 driving in like 8" of snow last year. I was driving 40mph when I should have been driving 30 and my snows were 3 winters old. The back end came around on me out of the blue and I had to fight hard to keep from losing it. The ass was swinging back and forth like a pendulum and I just kept overcorrecting. After what seemed like an eternity, I finally saved it.

But the car is awesome in the snow as long as I don't have worn snows...and I'm hoping softening the sways will make it even better. I might even remove them completely if I anticipate driving over the pass in a snow storm.

[rory_a]

My two main concerns were getting the suspension too stiff, and too low. I'm going to keep the stock sways unless I track down a sedan rear bar, and will likely get endlinks, at least until spring time. I haven't really had any issues with dumped cars in the winter as long as I have traction, but still a concern.


Your car looked sooo good cruising last night though, really got me itching to get the springs on.

[cody]

Thanks. I love seeing moded wagons around.

I haven't washed mine in months. You can still see the outline of my numbers from autoX if you look close.

My car doesn't really feel all that low until I scrape on monster speed bumps or something. I did high center going into a parking lot clogged with snow last winter, but that just means I didn't hit it hard enough. Actually I think new tires would have made a big difference.

[rory_a]

Originally Posted by cody

You can still see the outline of my numbers from autoX if you look close.

Mine are still ghosted too


Going to go ahead and install springs and struts and get a conservative alignment as soon as I can get rid of the PDE camber plates.