ZERO Faith in Cobb/Modern Garage.

[dayofpain]

This is the company that tuned my WRX, for cobb. But it seems they are still living in 02. I cannot believe if I hadnt seen this email with my own eyes the things he says inside it.

Originally Posted by Christian Krahenbuhl

-----,

Justin e-mailed me asking if we can complete a
tune for you. The dyno
and myself are booked until August 18th...I hope
this is acceptable to you.
If so please take my suggestions and answer some of
my questions, then we
can go from here. I highly suggest you do not use a
cold air intake of any
type for it will add several hours of dyno time (up
to 4). Dyno costs are
$214 per hour which includes use of the dyno, MoTeC
A/F meter, and tuning
fees. We can make a custom map for you as well as
anti-theft and valet maps
if you would like? The HKS SSQBOV will cause some
consistency issues with
the vehicle, I suggest you use the factory BOV for
it is plenty sufficient.
The Perrin Inlet Hose & Apex'i grounding kit will
most likely not add any
additional power over the stock components, you are
welcome to use them. The
last opportunity we tested Tanabe exhaust they did
not make as much power as
some of the other brands. I am not bashing any
products you have chosen,
just giving you my experience and opinion. The
vehicle will make just as
much power with a K&N drop-in filter and a good
turbo-back exhaust system.
Please take into account that I will only be
available today for I am out of
town until August 1st. E-mail me back with your
response.

Take care,

Christian.

Because of the ratardedness (made up word, deal with it) of these statements I personally do NOT recommened ANYONE gets tuned by him. Period.

[dayofpain]

here is my response to my client...

1 BOV : Tuning doesnt mean SHIT for a BOV NOT A DAM FUCKING THING. You do NOT shift when you tune. If he is, then hes a fucking idiot and you shouldnt take your car there. Bov's are a MUST when exceeding 20 psi. HE was the one that PROVED that the stock one fails @ 20 psi. Your choice in BOV was made before I even got to your car. BUT it WILL NOT be a problem when tuning. The only time a Bov can effect your performance is in a road race or auto x when you are having to shift. And in that case YOU SHOULD STILL DITCH YOUR STOCK BOV. The two best choices for the least drop in power for the 1 second in between shifts would be either worx or aps.

CAI : we have fucking proven 10 hp to the ground with the injen, UNTUNED. it simply raises the flow capacity of the stock airbox. gives the same pressure readings just flows more. which is exactly how the worx tuning cai is made. dyno time should be increase by anymore than 2 seconds because of this mod. if it is then your tuners a fuggin idiot. Side note. HE sold me an aps intake, the first one that was so large it did NOT keep the factory pressure readings and DID need a retune just to install it, it took him 10 minutes to compensate for a BIG MAF desgined CAI.

Perrin hose: The look alike is used on the s203 for a reason. subaru is NOT stupid despite what people think. That hose IS a choke point, which I have proven to NUMEROUS people. If you want to strangle your turbo go ahead and live without it. Sidenote : Christian himself suggested I buy the samco version long ago cause it was the only one made and HE was the one that SHOWED me the choke point. Since then the perrin has been the choice, due to better design.

Ground Kit: Please see my post on seccs.org http://www.seccs.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3358

Catback : Any IDIOT that tells you a catback makes big power is out to fuck you. That being said the number one choice for catbacks would be whichever one sounds better to you. So your choice in catbacks is fine.

We need to discuss what you do from here in person, please contact me after my bday weekend.

Phil

[Nick Koan]

Wow, just wow.

Tuning has changed, and it really disturbs me how many people still cling onto those Subaru 'tuning tips' from ages ago.

[sperry]

I'm a little confused as to who's who and when this happened. Is that an email from back when you were tuning the WRX, or is that regarding the STi?

If that's from '02, then most of what's in there matches the body of knowledge from back then. In '02 a BOV was unecessary, since all the ones out at that time were vent-to-atmosphere and nobody was really running that much boost to really need it. Now with the STi, things have changed a bit, but I'd still stick to only 100% recirculating BOVs.

Also, in '02 CAI's didn't make more power than stock... at least not safely. The early CAI's only leaned out the car, so they felt faster and sounded cooler, but were in fact risking the motor. Newer CAI's have been flow tested to be safe and provide additional power, especially on the STi w/ its larger displacement. Regarding tuning for a CAI... if the tuner is going to do it the right way, which includes scaling the MAF voltage for all rpm ranges, it will take a long ass time.

Turbo inlet hoses on WRX's don't make more power. My car is living proof. It's only with the install of the 2.5L that I'll finally be getting use out of that thing. But hell, sometimes you gotta try some stuff to see if it works, or we'd all be running the same shit we were running back when the WRX 1st came out.

Regarding the grounding kit... you've certainly shown that they do something, but we've yet to quantify what that something is. So it's a valid argument at this point to say that a grounding kit isn't worth the cost. It probably won't hurt anything, and it does seem to have some positive effects, but until we've got independent dyno data that shows the grounding kit does help performance in some way, you can make an argument for either side. Personally, I think the grounding kit won't add peak power or torque, but I believe it will help to smooth out the power curve due to more consistant sensor readings for the ECU.

You're dead on about cat backs and performance. If you're only gonna run a cat-back, just get the one that sounds the best. However, if you plan on later going to a full turbo-back, there's a chance that if you pick a shitty cat-back, it might hinder performance once the rest of the exhaust is replaced. However, I haven't heard of a cat-back that's that shitty yet.

So, if that email isn't from 2002, it sounds like this tuner is just living in the past, and still promoting what was considered to be the "right" way to tune from a few years back. Newer, better designed parts, and the differences due to the 2.5L STi motor have changed the tuning landscape a bit, which means things that didn't used to work are now useful like BOV's and CAIs.

(PS: Phil, I understand this is all stuff you already know, I'm posting it mostly for people that haven't been around Suby tuning for the last few years. Plus, playing devil's advocate is fun. )

[dayofpain]

heh no worries, i received this email from a client, TODAY. This was written to him the day before.

Seeing as it contradicts everything I have been telling my Client for the last month. and also seeing as how I was the one that refered him to cobb to get tuned, because of elevation and reputation, AND past tuning experience. It just irks the living FUCK out of me that he would pop off with such BS.

sigh

[dayofpain]

oh as far as the grounding kit. I think that the conclusions reached towards the end of the thread and in person are most accurate.

Yes it is my believe that they add power. BUT. I think that the true safety gains can been seen if you get retuned after the mod.

The statement of stock tuning and most aftermarket tuning beeing done with the crappy grounds. leads me to believe that with a retune you might see better gains and for sure more accurate and "safe" readings.

just my recent thoughts

[Mojo Troll]

Yo pain,

What is the make and model of the Subie in question on your original post. The opinion of the tuner really does'nt seem that far fetched for an 02-03 WRX with small or modest mods.

Perhaps you should clarify.

[dayofpain]

04 sti.

[Mojo Troll]

Hummm.....

Can't say that I know much about STI's. I realize they are modded differently than WRX's, but I can't even begin to speculate. Besides, theres plenty of bench racing on other forums.

The one thing I do know. Blatantly slamming and cussing competitors or others in the business, is poor business practice.

[Nick Koan]

Huh? Sure, blatantly slamming your competition is of course bad, but.. um, we as customers are allowed to voice concerns, right?

[cody]

DayOfPain is not a customer, he's a competitor (I'm assuming). I don't have a problem with it though. He posted the information, I'm assuming, unedited, so it's just information. You can't be mad at knowledge.

Tuners have told me that IC hoses smooth out the powerband and will add 5-10 whp to a stage 2 WRX. I think they'd yield even more power for the STI.

[Kevin M]

Phil's just a concerned (and well-informed) customer.

[cody]

What type of client is this customer?

[Nick Koan]

Originally Posted by cody

What type of client is this customer?

He does stereo installs, I believe. I don't think Cobb does stereo installs.

[MattR]

Cobb Tuning, "Home of the $1 Install"?

[dayofpain]

Originally Posted by MattR

Cobb Tuning, "Home of the $1 Install"?

bahahahah

home of the 1 dollar wire fire....



anyways, my client is someone i am building a car for. Cobb is not my competition, I do not offer tuning services "yet".

Most of my "clients" are people needing advice and install help for their mechanical needs.

I very very very rarely do car audio installations at my home, because of the conflict of interest with my work.

Example: client comes to me, tells me he wants 400 crank hp on an 04 sti. I ask the purpose. IE: autocross, streetkiller, drag racing, or simply a number whore. I investigate which parts from which vendors will accomplish this SAFELY, and Inexpensively. I either take the clients money and order product from the vendors OR I put them in direct contact with a vendor I can trust and have them order themselves. Seeing as how tuning is a MAJOR part of this, I cannot do it. So I refered this client to cobb. Seemed the logical choice because of elevation and reputation. It will NOT be a mistake I make again.