Torn, help?

[nightwalker]

What's up everyone. I'm new around here. Looking to buy an awd car before the snow hits in late October. Been looking at buying a WRX, possibly STi, but also debating the EVO too. Just wondering what opinions people have about the two. (I know this is a Subbie board) But try to be honest. Thanks.

[doubleurx]

All three are great choices. If you can afford the extra cash I would lean towards either the EVO or the STI. You'll be happy with either. There are a couple members that have the EVO and one that has both.............LOL

[sti deede]

The STi interior is a little nicer and the bigger engine is a bonus. I love mine. The evo is awesome too. DustinR on the board has both and STi and an Evo MR. He loves them both, but for differant reasons. The Evo handles more precise than the STi, but the STi feels like it has more power.

Your call of course, but I agree with Nick, both are awesome choices.

Alot of the people that I know that have WRX's and compete with them mod them.....alot, or have changed out to an STi (in some form or another). It is not a bad car, but the alternatives are more fun I think. If you get a WRX you should get a wagon. Those rule.

Or perhaps you could go with the Legacy GT. Those are the new hotness.

Good Luck Phia!

[M3n2c3]

If your remaining funds will be limited after purchasing your new car, keep in mind that the STi and the Evo come stock with street performance (summer) tires, and you'll have to drop extra buck$ for winters/all-seasons for the snow. AWD won't do you much good without proper tires. . .

I'm not a huge fan of the Evo, but I think it stems mostly from the body styling and the fact that, while it's a good car, every time I see one I think of the base Lancer. Ugh. Stick a wing on a 120hp 2.0L, call it OZ Rally, and expect people to like its ugly mug. . .

The STi does have a bit more kick to it versus the Evo: 300hp/300lb-ft vs. 276hp/286lb-ft.

A MY06 WRX wouldn't be a bad choice - they upgraded it to a 2.5L, so there's tons of potential to move up from the stock 230hp. . .

[Dean]

All are good choices depending on you wants/needs/budget. So Some questions for you..

1. Budget? A used WRX can be under $15K, and a new EVO/STI over $30K. Lease or buy?

2. Planned usage. You mention snow driving, but do you have a family, or a need to haul stuff? How many miles a year do you drive, as fueling the WRX may be cheaper over time if that is important.

3. Driving style & experience? Fast in a straight line, fast in the curves, all around spirited, around town cruising, etc... Daily driver, never done any performance driving to FL licenced...

4. Urge to Mod? Do you want to spend more money making the car "yours" or perform better?

Tell us more and we will give you some ideas. I like all 3 cars, but they have different personalities, and pros and cons.

[nightwalker]

well, I plan to use the car for autox and track days, as well as winter and some daily driving. My 240 will be my summer car. I'm very much a "driver". I prefer better handling over power any day, and I will be modding the crap out of whichever car I buy. Suspension first, then maybe some power. Not looking at trying to make 500hp or something, as I'm sure 40-80 some plus over the stock hp levels will be fine for me. I'm actually more concerned about response. Thanks guys.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by nightwalker

I prefer better handling over power any day

Originally Posted by nightwalker

I will be modding the crap out of whichever car I buy.

Both of these statements make me think the EVO might be a better car for you, with the STi a close second. I wouldn't bother with the WRX since you plan on doing autoX and track days. A WRX will be cheaper initially but in the long run will cost you a LOT more to make it a fast car.

[sp00ln]

Originally Posted by nightwalker

well, I plan to use the car for autox and track days, as well as winter and some daily driving. My 240 will be my summer car. I'm very much a "driver". I prefer better handling over power any day, and I will be modding the crap out of whichever car I buy. Suspension first, then maybe some power. Not looking at trying to make 500hp or something, as I'm sure 40-80 some plus over the stock hp levels will be fine for me. I'm actually more concerned about response. Thanks guys.

Evo Evo Evo. With their stock turbos, they respond to mods so much better. You can run low 12s up here with just a fuel managment system, boost controller and 3'' exhaust. And as far as cornering goes, time and time again the evo has been proven to to be quicker.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by sp00ln

Evo Evo Evo. With their stock turbos, they respond to mods so much better. You can run low 12s up here with just a fuel managment system, boost controller and 3'' exhaust. And as far as cornering goes, time and time again the evo has been proven to to be quicker.

If nightwalker's going to be modding the hell out the the suspension, there's basically no difference between the EVO and the STi's (or even the WRX's) suspension. Coilovers and swaybars pretty much bring all 3 to the same level. EVO's got a bit of a quicker steering rack, but that's not necessarily a huge deal since the STi's is close.

Also, an STi and EVO both on stock turbos, with engine management and exhaust is also a toss up power-wise... the EVO will probably have the advantage in the 1/4 mile, but the low-end torque of the STi will make it more responsive and more fun in "realistic" driving situations.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by nightwalker

well, I plan to use the car for autox and track days, as well as winter and some daily driving. My 240 will be my summer car. I'm very much a "driver". I prefer better handling over power any day, and I will be modding the crap out of whichever car I buy. Suspension first, then maybe some power. Not looking at trying to make 500hp or something, as I'm sure 40-80 some plus over the stock hp levels will be fine for me. I'm actually more concerned about response. Thanks guys.

You didn't mention budget...

Based on your handling over power comment, I'd lean toward a WRX or a Evo.

Personally, I'd be tempted to pick up a used 03 Evo and just drive the f'er. If you want it to perform in the snow, you can't do much to the suspension, but it is pretty good stock. Stiff suspension <> good in snow.

Off the showroom floor, the Evo handles better, has brakes that will hold up to a traack day with some good pads, and fluid and

I like the quicker rack in the Evo as well.

[MikeSTI]

all good points above

personaly I would get an STi..............chicks dig it!!!!!

Evo's are for high school kids, not that I'm knocking anyone that drives an Evo they are great machines. But when it comes to help with upgrades dont offer beer for help, you might end up in jail

[sp00ln]

The only reason to why Id get an STI over the evo is for one, the interior, and two, the exhaust note.

[nightwalker]

I appreciate all the opinions guys. I love the way the STi looks, and I like the interior better. But the EVO performance is so enticing. When I buy one of these cars, it will be used, one or two years at least.

[Mojo Troll]

Originally Posted by M3n2c3

If your remaining funds will be limited after purchasing your new car, keep in mind that the STi and the Evo come stock with street performance (summer) tires, and you'll have to drop extra buck$ for winters/all-seasons for the snow. AWD won't do you much good without proper tires. . .

I'm not a huge fan of the Evo, but I think it stems mostly from the body styling and the fact that, while it's a good car, every time I see one I think of the base Lancer. Ugh. Stick a wing on a 120hp 2.0L, call it OZ Rally, and expect people to like its ugly mug. . .

The STi does have a bit more kick to it versus the Evo: 300hp/300lb-ft vs. 276hp/286lb-ft.

A MY06 WRX wouldn't be a bad choice - they upgraded it to a 2.5L, so there's tons of potential to move up from the stock 230hp. . .

I could'nt agree more. Theres only a small handful of Evo's running around the Truckee Meadows, which I droll over everytime, but seeing the base model Lancer on a daily bases just kills me. Granted its a totally different platform, it still drives me up the wall.

Why not AutoX and track the Z car and get a cheaper winter vehicle? Do you really need 300 hp in the winter?

Perhaps I dont understand were your coming from.

[qksubi]

I use to have a Evo and also currently own a 04 Sti The Evo was fun a but for a daily driver it sucks the sterring is sweet for auto-x try to park and do U-turns for get it!The seats in the Evo are sweet but for long trips they kill your back! Get the legacy GT white with black rims polished lip thats sooo friggin hot the Sti is sweet if you Autox if you dont plan on doing any of that get the legacy GT ask nkoan that car rocks a little suspesion and you have the best of both world

[cody]

Really good points everyone^^^^
The only thing I'd add is a lot of people have tranny failures with their WRX...mostly from abusive launching and/or increasing the power beyond what the transmission can handle. Your proposed HP increase *shouldn't* be a problem as long as you don't mistreat the tranny, but I just figured I should mention this.

The STI is a whole different beast. The tranny is bullet proof and all the modding has been done for you. The only things you would have to do to gain ~75 HP is add a Turbo Back Exhaust (the uppipe is catless already), port the wastegate on the turbo, possibly add a fuel pump, and get engine management. The car would scream.

I don't know much about them, but if you don't mind the looks and the interior (I don't), the Evo might make the most sense from a moddibility (new word?) standpoint. I'm pretty sure modding an Evo to get some more HP is cheaper. I know you can't just throw a boost controller on a WRX, but it sounds like you can with an Evo.

But yah, if you get a WRX, get a wagon. There's no better combination of performance and utility for the price. And like I said, I have no tranny issues (knock on wood) and I'm at the power level of an STI.

[Kevin M]

The "glass transmission" perception is the result of the weaknesses of the '02 and '03 gearboxes breaking under strenuous use. Each year since it's gotten much better, and for '05 and '06 I personally would have no problem doing significant engine mods to a WRX without worrying much about the gearbox.

Nightwalker, since you've already got the 240 toy car, a Legacy GT (preferably wagon ) seems the best choice. Of all the cars being discussed it's the "nicest" and it still has a drivetrain with serious power potential. Just a turbo, exhaust, and EM away from 400 hp. And since power is the least important aspect of the next car for you according to your posts, I would think the Legacy would be your best bet because it excels in all the other areas that we would consider when choosing a car.

[cody]

I'm going to respectfully disagree. The only changes I'm aware of are the addition of an extra synchro on 1st gear in the 05 models and I believe the 05 or 06's got a stronger case. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Additionally, while I wouldn't call it a glass transmission, there have been several cases where people say they didn't mod or abuse and they still wrecked a gear or two. Who knows if they're telling the truth or not, but if I was buying a used WRX, I would certainly want to know this factor since the previous owner could have modded/abused it.

[Kevin M]

I wouldn't buy a 2002 or 2003 WRX, period. Mostly because I don't like bugeyes! But the drivetrain just isn't very good in my opinion. The EJ20 has some serious faults with regards to modding, and the transmissions aren't very good. But like I said, there have been incremental improvements every year, and as it is now I wouldn't be overly concerned about buying a new WRX, gearbox and all.

[cody]

I think you may have been mislead. Like I said, the only improvements to the transmission have not addressed the gear braking issue that many people have had. Also, I'm not aware of any changes to the EJ20, MY02-05.

[sperry]

Let me count the number of people I know that have broken a gear on a WRX tranny.

Zero.

Yep, not a single person I know has broken a gear on an '02-'05 WRX tranny. Now, if you want to talk about blown synchros... that's a bit of a different story... but as far as I know, nobody I know personally from SECCS, I-Club or NASIOC have actually broken a gear.

IMO the gear-set is strong enough for 300 crank hp/tq. Toss some shock-proof in there to help the synchros grip, and learn how to shift smoothly and slowly with rev-matching, and I contend you can race a WRX on one of those gear boxes without issues. Just ask Gary Sheehan.

Hell, in about 50,000 miles, I never had an issue w/ my gearbox, and about 35,000 of those miles was at 200awhp, and involved a bunch of racing. And I was still able to get into 1st gear on the autocross course in anger w/o grinding or other issues. And all that was in an '02, the most notorious of trannies. And I'm planning on getting further use out of it once it's swapped into my SVX.

Now I'm not saying that the WRX tranny is great, but I think the generalization that they're crappy is greatly inflated by the fact that those with problems are far more vocal than those without. In addition, I think most of the people that have had problems are asking for a lot more out of the tranny than Subaru ever intended.

[Dean]

What Scott said... My 02 WRX tranny has getten a beating and keeps on ticking. I don't recall teh current milage, but almost every mile except the forst 2000 have been driving to a beating, the beating, or the drive hoime from the beating. While I am no Gary Sheehan, I have flogged, probably over 2500 track miles now in my WRX, Hundreds of Autocross runs with mean nasty ram it in downshifts, and very quick upshifts with no problems, and I am still on the factory tranny fluid. Non of this fancy pants Shockproof stuff for me. (yet)

I agree that the vast majority of the people bitching about the WRX tranny are trying to cram to much HP/Torque through it, or just don't know how to shift.

You wanta crappy tranny, get a Gertrag 5 or 6 speed from a 3S car. Now there is a piece of $4!+. Leaky, undersized synchro without enough clearance between the case and the gearset hunk of junk.

[cody]

Let's be honest, all of our opinions are anechdotal. I just wanted nightwalker to know that the transmission is the weakest link in the WRX.

[Dean]

I think the weekest link in the WRX is the brakes. Where is Aaron... Lets see how many WRX trannies S^2 has done on cars that were not highly modified or had bad drivers. Heck, how many total have they done? I think the tranny thing is blown out of proportion, mostly by drag racers.

[cody]

True, the pad, SS line, Syn fluid brake upgrade is well worth it (as I understand it). This is my next planned mod for sure. Shouldn't cost more than $250.