What spring rates do you recommend?

[100_Percent_Juice]

I am looking for new suspension on my 04wrx. Here is what im looking for. The car is 99.9% daily driver with a small amount of autox in the future. I want minimal drop because I hate scraping the front of the car but would like to remove some of the gap. I was looking into Tein Flex because of all the adjustment options, which I know a lot of you have. What spring rates should I look into with nice daily driver appeal?

[ryan4601]

I would tell you that the Flex's are a good buy for a daily driver. My wrx is pretty much 100% daily driven with very little auto-x or track use. I dont have any experience with other types of coil overs, but i like the teins because you can adjust height without affecting anything else. The ride with the flex's is great i think...not super stiff, but not soft either. If you want to drive/ride in my car to see what they feel like before you buy, let me know and it can happen. I would say for the money they are a good buy. Install isnt hard either. Id also suggest a set of sway bars as well. just my 2 cents.
ryan

BTW you will need camber bolts for the rear to achieve stock alignment settings

[M3n2c3]

I went the coilover route for a while. . .

IMO, coilovers are nearly useless on a daily driver that sees minimal autox time. I rarely used the adjustments (just damping for autox, usually), and the benefits that I did see at autox were not really worth having to deal with the ride quality around town. I ditched them right before my son was born, and replaced them with a set of Prodrive springs - and I'm quite glad I did.

They're much firmer and feel more confident than stock, but stay compliant for daily driving. It's a nice solid ride. I can't really comment on the rates themselves, as Prodrive doesn't publish theirs. Apparently the rears are progressive to help ride quality (see pic).

They also drop the car lightly - about an inch or so, with a bit of a rake to even out the front and back. That'll give you what you're looking for in terms of ride height. I reached the same conclusion: too low = scraped bumper = unhappy me. I don't fear speed bumps quite as much any more.

Being as pleased as I am with my Prodrives, I'd recommend a set of springs and a sway bar upgrade. You'll save a ton of $$, and have a much improved ride.

[ryan4601]

Springs is a great way to go as well. Only downside is reduced life of your shocks because of the springs. But they will still last a while reguardless. But cost wise you could upgrade all your suspension parts and more for the same price as a coil over set if you went with springs. Ride quality would be better as well. I have my Tein's set on max soft for around town and since i dont have the EDFC i never change the settings. Depending on your finances springs arent a big investment and if you decide to upgrade later you wont be at a very big loss. whichever you choose will be great.
ryan

[100_Percent_Juice]

Thanks for the input and I would love to take you up on the ride.

M3n2c3 thanks for the post about your springs. I would like to take a ride if possible and see how they compare. I have had a tendency to want to stay away with springs due to the fact that I have had them on cars before and didnt get favorable results. Same with my friends. If I go with springs I would no doubt want to also replace the struts. (there is a chance my rear strut has been damaged from an accident)
So then comes the question, does the cost of springs and new struts make coilovers the better choice? Also I "assume" that tein flex make it easier to do your own alignment which is important to me.

[MPREZIV]

As far as doing your own alignment, I'd suggest against it. A set of coil-overs like the Type Flex makes it easier to do your own camber adjustments, but if the car's 99.9% DD like you said, you'll want to have the alignment done professionally. A little bit of toe will F a set of tires QUICK on your street car.

[cody]

I reccomend Crucial Springs and Koni Inserts. I run Crucial Springs with KYB AGX struts (with 45k miles on the struts) and the struts may not be dampening the springs enough. (See my thread entitled, Front Wheel Hop for details).

Also, it looks like I'll have the Eibach springs and bugeye rear tophats up for sale again if your interested. Killer60foot put them on his STi and he said they made a big difference in performance but they didn't lower the car at all according to him, which is the only reason he bought them...to lower the car. They're a little softer than the Crucials, and I'd say they're maybe 1cm lower in the back and the same ride height in the front when compared to the Crucials, going from my experience switching over in my wagon (heavy wagon ass + the small sub).

The crazy thing about the Crucial Springs is that even though they have higher spring rates than the Eibachs, they feel just as comfortable on the street. I think they nailed the Progressive spring rate spread really well. They definitely hold the car flatter around corners.

I've never run coilovers, but as I understand it, they require more maintenance, cost more than spring/struts, and if you don't corner balance the car, your not getting your money's worth.

[sperry]

I'm gonna recommend the Tein Flex's. Granted, the adjustability is over-kill for someone looking for a street-only setup, but they really are excellent in handling, ride quality and build quality. Try to find a used set or something, should be well under $1000. They're pretty bullet-proof (you're not going to have to rebuild them frequently like you would with a race coilover), and there's none of the issues with wearing out struts early, or finding the right top mounts, etc. And the ride is plenty comfortable on the street when compared to lowering springs (in fact it's far better than lowering springs on stock struts) and the handling is that much better as well.

Sure springs are going to be cheaper, but you get what you pay for with the Tein Flex's.

[ryan4601]

I would also suggest professional allignment, where you want to go is up to you, but any good shop that will let you have the settings you want should be good. The coil overs make it easy to change ride height and front camber adjustment. I also just purchased rear camber plates to make it easier to adjust rear camber. The Flex's come with front camber plates and solid rear upper mounts. The only downside i think to running springs and shocks is that you would probably also want to buy new top hats (cusco, noltec, sti, etc) which would bring the price very close to that of the coil overs which come with new top hats already. Also spring rate & shock valving is better matched with the coil overs as compared to a spring and shock combination....at least i would hope. Ill be out of town today and tomorrow, but any day after that we can meet up for the ride if you want.
ryan

doh....scott beat me to saying pretty much all this! haha, but yes you get what you pay for. If you have the money, i would spend it right first and not worry about upgrading later. I have had my flex's on for over 40k now with no problems, no rebuild, nothing. They have been great.

[cody]

Other than camber adjustability and adding NVH, what's the point of tophats on a spring/strut combo?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by cody

Other than camber adjustability and adding NVH, what's the point of tophats on a spring/strut combo?

Handling, adjustability, and better ride quality (less bounce than rubber), at the expense of NVH.

[M3n2c3]

Originally Posted by 100_Percent_Juice

Thanks for the input and I would love to take you up on the ride.

M3n2c3 thanks for the post about your springs. I would like to take a ride if possible and see how they compare. I have had a tendency to want to stay away with springs due to the fact that I have had them on cars before and didnt get favorable results. Same with my friends. If I go with springs I would no doubt want to also replace the struts. (there is a chance my rear strut has been damaged from an accident)
So then comes the question, does the cost of springs and new struts make coilovers the better choice? Also I "assume" that tein flex make it easier to do your own alignment which is important to me.

Sure thing - I may be able to make it to the meet this week

Regarding struts, Prodrive really seems to have done its homework on these springs - the combo of drop and spring rate work great on the stock struts. I've come to the conclusion that I don't need to worry about my struts until I decide I want damping adjustability back. Most other springs give a lower drop (which you may not want, judging by your first post) and really require a more aggressive strut to match.

Be forewarned that there are not a lot of strut choices for our MY - KYB does not have anything available yet, the Konis need to be built in to the stock housings (unless you can find a used set), and I believe Ohlins has a 32-way adjustable set for about $2000. . . At least, that's all I've been able to find so far. There's always the option to do a full '02/'03 rear swap if you want to run KYB AGX struts.

Having said all this, I will admit that I really like the Tein Flexes on Cory's RS (although the GC spring rates are a bit lower than the GD). Ultimately, though, I'm much happier with what I'm getting for $300 than what I got for $1000. With the driving I do these days, the lack of autocrossing, and having a baby in the back seat (coilovers and soft baby noggins are probably a bad mix), the springs are working out great.

[100_Percent_Juice]

I am about to buy a set of tein flex from a guy off of nasioc. They are used and he has not sent the pictures yet but will in a matter of days. Is there anything specific I should ask him about the suspension or anything I should watch out for? He wants cash + my stock suspension which I would send after I got the teins installed. If I get them, are any of you able to test them out and make sure none of them are blown or damaged?

[sybir]

There's not a great way to "test" without tossing them on a car.

Did you divulge the fact that you think your strut is damaged to him as well?

[Dean]

Number of miles is what is most likely telling as well as condition of the paint on the struts themselves. Chrome finish on the rod itself should be unblemished.

You can test the struts yourself. Pull off the springs and put the hat back on. Put a specific weight on each and time compression.

I think they are pressurized, so time the rebound as well. They should rebound fully.

Repeat on a couple different settings. Both fronts should match as well as the rears. spring on each end should also be the same height at rest.

[cody]

Is there any reason I wouldn't want to use my KYB AGX housings for Koni inserts?

[Dean]

Originally Posted by cody

Is there any reason I wouldn't want to use my KYB AGX housings for Koni inserts?

Unless you have no choice, inserts are typically a bad choice and won't perform as well in the long run as what they are replacing.

Less fluid volume, smaller piston, smaller shaft, shorter throw, etc...

[100_Percent_Juice]

Originally Posted by sybir

Did you divulge the fact that you think your strut is damaged to him as well?

Yeah and I told him I will probably have a new rear strut or a new used rear strut. Pending when I can get my car into Cory to check it out and fix the wheel bearing. Which reminds me.
http://www.seccs.org/forums/showthre...680#post100680

[cody]

Originally Posted by Dean

Unless you have no choice, inserts are typically a bad choice and won't perform as well in the long run as what they are replacing.

Less fluid volume, smaller piston, smaller shaft, shorter throw, etc...

Really? I guess I better do more homework. Everything I've read (albeit all on WRXFanatics) says the Konis are the strut of choice for Crucial Springs. Jeremy (aka EJ20Legacy, owner of Crucial) said he thought they would offer better dampening than the KYB AGX's.

[Dean]

Again, I am talking about inserts in general relative to full struts, not comparing brands in any manner or the specific performance of a specific insert.

You are attempting to do the same job in less space which all but requires smaller and possibly less durable parts, and less fluid to keep them cool while encasing them in the old shell which acts as an insulator which is still worse for fluid temps...

[cody]

Well that doesn't sound ideal. I'll look for alternative full struts. I'm open to suggestions.

[M3n2c3]

Ohlins, when only the best will do.

Seriously, though - outside of KYB there's not much left. . .

[cody]

You're high if you think I'd pay that much for struts.

[M3n2c3]

Hey, I'd buy 'em if I had $2000 to easily drop on struts but somehow still just had an RS. . .

But even then, I probably wouldn't still have an RS

You know, I just scrolled a little further down and noticed that the Tein Basic and Super Street coilovers are remarkably cheap and have very agreeable spring rates. 280lb springs f/r. The Basic is pretty much just an exclusive spring/strut combo (no topmounts included), but the SS have topmounts and damping adjustment. That nice spring rate has my attention all of a sudden. . .

[cody]

I'm currenlty reading this thread. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...=tokico+struts

Tokico D-Spec's may be in my future...