SVX Brakes: They suck so bad it's better just to buy a Legacy apparently

[sperry]

Originally Posted by sedonabugeye

and Scott, if you need brake parts, im pretty sure we have everything oem for svx's at my shop.. just an option if you get in a bind.

I redid the brakes entirely with reman OEM parts... calipers, rotors, pads, lines... and they still suck. I'm thinking about trying to convert to STi hubs on the car so I can run Brembos or StopTechs... since no one else in the SVX community seems ingenious or involved enough to come up with adapters for the SVX hubs.

But I'm staying away from stock SVX brakes if I can. On paper they should be about as good as the WRX sliding calipers... but in reality they suck.

[Kevin M]

Have you looked into changing the master cylinder Scott? Maybe higher pressure per pedal travel will help.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Kevin M

Have you looked into changing the master cylinder Scott? Maybe higher pressure per pedal travel will help.

I'm pretty sure it's the 1/8" of flex on the sliding calipers that let the pad surface move around all over the place. It's so bad that the pads will sometimes end up against the center-hat of the rotor and grind/squeal like the world is ending.

I thought I had some bad/worn calipers, which is why I ended up replacing all four corners... and the new ones are exactly the same.

[Kevin M]

Dude, just buy a Legacy.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Kevin M

Dude, just buy a Legacy.

How is a Legacy at all the equivalent-but-easier-to-own-car to an SVX?

[Kevin M]

Besides being less expensive to maintain, better performing (even with the base engine), not at risk of being totalled over paint chips and good looking?

I dunno. Mostly I was just busting your chops for putting up with the headaches of maintaining an expensive, pain in the ass, worthless but nevertheless pretty cool DD.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Kevin M

Besides being less expensive to maintain, better performing (even with the base engine), not at risk of being totalled over paint chips and good looking?

I dunno. Mostly I was just busting your chops for putting up with the headaches of maintaining an expensive, pain in the ass, worthless but nevertheless pretty cool DD.

What?

You find me a Legacy that's "good looking", "better performing" and "less expensive to maintain" than my SVX for $1000 and I'll buy it.

[ScottyS]

Regardless of the incredible cost of trying to get the SVX to perform, I still love the looks of the car. Someday I will probably own one.

[Kevin M]

How about I look for one that approaches what you've *actually* spent on the SVX.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Kevin M

How about I look for one that approaches what you've *actually* spent on the SVX.

You're missing my point. There's no such thing as a Legacy that's as fast/nice/etc as an SVX, even if you put $9000 into it after the $1000 purchase price, or just buy one for $10,000.

You're not gonna find a Legacy on-par w/ the SVX in performance unless you're talking about a turbo one... and then you're gonna have to get an '05 LGT if you want it to be less of a maintenance nightmare than the SVX because making a EJ22T that fast means way more work/money than I've put into the SVX.

And when it's all said and done, you're still just driving a family sedan instead of a GT, which is why suggesting buying a Legacy over upgrading the SVX's brakes is a weird suggestion to begin with.

[Kevin M]

I'm not that interested in pursuing this discussion because I was just making a joke directed at your obsession with making a thoroughbred out of a plowhorse (though a good looking one). It wasn't all that funny so there's no need to continue.

Besides, if I had the ability to get a really cool, but expensive headache DD it would be an 860Ci, which makes owning an SVX look like a 2000 Outback or something.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Kevin M

I'm not that interested in pursuing this discussion because I was just making a joke directed at your obsession with making a thoroughbred out of a plowhorse (though a good looking one). It wasn't all that funny so there's no need to continue.

Besides, if I had the ability to get a really cool, but expensive headache DD it would be an 860Ci, which makes owning an SVX look like a 2000 Outback or something.

First, I'm not continuing this in order to perpetuate an argument or anything, I get that you were just making a mediocre joke... I just enjoy talking about the SVX.

I guess what I'm missing is why the SVX has a reputation as "a plowhorse". IMO, Subaru has yet to build another car in the same class as the SVX. Everything they've build that's "performance oriented" is just a tarted up econobox or family sedan. The SVX is the only Subaru that was actually designed start to finish to be a performance oriented car.

The only thing that makes it seem like a dud today is that in the 20 years since they designed it, cars have gotten a lot faster in general. But suggesting a Legacy as it's replacement is like suggesting a Gen1 Miata should be replaced by a WRX. Sure, the WRX is lightyears faster, but it's not at all an equivalent kind of car.

The SVX has a fantastic motor, the best aero of any car they've ever made, and great looks. The JDM versions even got the rear-biased VDC gearboxes and 4WS, which are the things missing from the US models that prevent them from handling the way the car was intended.

Like every 15-20 year old limited production car, parts are hard to come by and expensive when you can find them. But with the exception of the transmission (the one major component that *is* easy to find) the SVX is no more of a maintenance nightmare than any other car of its vintage/production size. In fact, it's probably a lot better than many others (think old Saabs, or that 850 BMW) because Subarus are pretty reliable.

As far as a Legacy... I have bad thoughts about picking up a 1st or 2nd gen Outback to make into a daily driver with the motor/tranny from the WRX in it. Then I can take my time doing up the SVX w/ a built motor and 6MT. But that would require parting out the WRX and lots of fabrication work on the SVX and then owning two frankensubies, with one as a daily driver. I haven't decided if I'm that dumb yet or not.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by sperry

First, I'm not continuing this in order to perpetuate an argument or anything, I get that you were just making a mediocre joke... I just enjoy talking about the SVX. ... I haven't decided if I'm that dumb yet or not.

Obviously you aren't, or you'd have done it. I get why you love that car. It does have a lot going for it. It's just that the negatives are nearly insurmountable- terrible brakes, low cash value which leaves you hanging if you're ever in a minor collision, and many replacement parts like glass are crazy expensive. On the other hand, it's very unique (I have never seen or even heard about a specific SVX that's as well-maintained and restored as yours) it's great looking, and aside from the brakes you love the way it drives.

Heck, the only thing I do different is obsess over old, cheap econoboxes that just happen to be really cheap to fix, upgrade or replace- but they're never going to be GTs. In the last few years I realized I've started to become something I used to ridicule in other people- someone who wants a commuting appliance for my DD, not an amazing driving machine. I want a race car that's an amazing driving machine, and I'm still willing to go through plenty of hassle and headache to get exactly what I want.
Hopefully anyway, since I'm about to start my 3rd complete chassis swap in 3 years for this year's Solo car. But for DD, I just want a quiet, inexpensive, reliable, inexpensive, non-broken, inexpensive, practical and inexpensive wagon. So last weekend I picked up an '04 Outback crazy cheap. I'll have a thread about that this weekend.

[ScottyS]

Haha, Kevin you know you got lucky on that '04, you had better make it a sweet DD instead of flipping it.

The only true alternative to the SVX would be an '05+ LGT, possibly a turbo'd 2nd gen Legacy. I don't really see Impreza's in the same class of comfort or style, which is what the SVX is all about.

Making a 1st gen 22T fast is not hard these days, there is now a pretty straight-forward recipe for that. The bad thing about them is that they are so freaking old that you have to replace all sorts of little stuff to get them nice and reliable. And then you are still stuck with an old car with an old, cheap interior. Now, if you were going to just use it for AutoX or something, that's different, but as a true GT car no way.

Doing a full 22T swap into a new car is a little crazy, basically taking an OBDII and turning it into an OBDI. You might as well start with a newer (WRX, etc) harness and use that as the swap. Now we are getting expensive. At that point you might as well find a good SVX shell and swap that.

[Dean]

I am not getting involved really, but adding my lament...

I helped Sue pick the exact SVX Scott is now driving. At the time, it was the best bang for your buck GT car in existence and AWD just made it that much better.

With the exception of the stupid front windows, the car really has no flaws. Could it use more power, or better brakes, sure, but that is not a flaw. (I drove that car on the track, and the brakes were not that bad. I wonder
if you have a master cylinder or booster problem?)

At the time, the only thing remotely close was the Porsche C4 for 2-4 times as much and not as functional. The 3000gt/stealth might have been a contender, but it just didn't fit her.

The GT segment is all but dead. Heck, coupes are all but dead as well. We are in a world of hatchbacks, sedans, wagons and SUVS and the occasional semi-sporty version of those. True sports cars are all but gone at least large production ones.

The automotive enthusiast is really stuck without a clear bang for your buck sportsy car to love and obsess over. Sad as it is to say, the Miata may be the closest thing left. The Corvette is just a bit too pricey IMHO.

[A1337STI]

Sorry didn't read this thread in its entirety , but the Title made me remember,

My buddy Raphael just tore apart a Legacy 91' and has the front brakes available, and i think between Ansel and I we have some rear calipers (older impreza) .. Actually i have an other set of front impreza calipers (made for the 9.5" discs though ...

If any of that helps you out LMK , if not i'll keep em for rally spares.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by A1337STI

Sorry didn't read this thread in its entirety , but the Title made me remember,

My buddy Raphael just tore apart a Legacy 91' and has the front brakes available, and i think between Ansel and I we have some rear calipers (older impreza) .. Actually i have an other set of front impreza calipers (made for the 9.5" discs though ...

If any of that helps you out LMK , if not i'll keep em for rally spares.

Those won't help, but thanks for the offer.

The only brakes bigger than the ones on the SVX are the STi Brembos or aftermarket calipers (except maybe the new LGT or Tribeca brakes... I don't know). The problem is that the SVX's calipers have a lot of flex to them, so they feel squishy, and can slide around on the rotor to contact the tophat and make horrible grinding noises.

I may just have something wrong w/ my particular brakes that's fixable, I just haven't figured it out and I'd rather sort out some bigger brakes than fuss w/ the small ones on the car.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

With the exception of the stupid front windows, the car really has no flaws. Could it use more power, or better brakes, sure, but that is not a flaw. (I drove that car on the track, and the brakes were not that bad. I wonder
if you have a master cylinder or booster problem?)

The brakes work fine... well other than the fact you can fade them in one or two hard stops at the track... they just feel spongy.

I don't think there's a booster problem, or the brakes would feel rock hard and just not work well. And I doubt the MC is bad for the same reason: the brakes stop the car just fine.

I'm pretty sure the issue is with the front calipers since they can be flexed *by hand* in a way that changes the seating of the pads. The floating side of the caliper can be wiggled up and down by like 1/8". Maybe that's normal, but I don't remember my WRX sliding calipers doing that. That would explain why occasionally the pads end up rubbing against the rotor tophat, then at the next stop they're back to quiet.

Honestly, I just want that rock-hard pedal and eye-popping braking you get with some StopTechs. The brakes are my favorite thing on the racecar.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by ScottyS

Haha, Kevin you know you got lucky on that '04, you had better make it a sweet DD instead of flipping it.

That's the plan. The list of cars that would convince me to sell it is pretty small.