Sway bars

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Oh, and this:

is an absolutely fabulous idea.

In a mildly underpowered 3200 pound AWD car at a Solo 2... yes. On the street, not so much, hence the advice to get an adjustable sway bar and not run it stiff unless you want those handling characteristics. How much fun is driving a car that won't even mildly oversteer when you lift sharply after turn-in?
Also, by "snap overtseer" I mean, the rear tires break loose and yaw rate rapidly increases. Not necessarily going ass over teakettle into the nearest cones, weeds, or mountainside.

Background: Chris has been a passenger in my RS at Solo 2 and told me he liked how my car handled, and I've ridden with him in his caras well. He's probably better than me at not spinning his car when it oversteers, racing dirt tracks might have something to do with that. I know for a fact I'm not setting him up for failure by suggesting he add a stiff rear sway to his RS.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by khail19

I think strut bars got popular because the aftermarket made them for cars that needed them first, maybe like old Civics and whatnot. Then everyone decided they wanted them for looks mostly, because most newer cars don't benefit much from them.

Yup. Think 240Z, Datsun 510, BMW 2002... all cars with long engine compartments and strut/shock towers smack in the middle.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by MattR

Good discussion boys..god damn....

So, wait until I tell you that I'm running no rear bar on the Sti. Double adjustable Coilovers and 8k springs FTW.

Colin Chapman would be proud.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

In a mildly underpowered 3200 pound AWD car at a Solo 2... yes. On the street, not so much, hence the advice to get an adjustable sway bar and not run it stiff unless you want those handling characteristics. How much fun is driving a car that won't even mildly oversteer when you lift sharply after turn-in?
Also, by "snap overtseer" I mean, the rear tires break loose and yaw rate rapidly increases. Not necessarily going ass over teakettle into the nearest cones, weeds, or mountainside.

The fact that you're telling someone to compensate for factory designed understeer by inducing a poor handling quirk of that car with an even poorer driving technique is what prompted me to make that original comment.

[bruspeed]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Yup. Think 240Z, Datsun 510, BMW 2002... all cars with long engine compartments and strut/shock towers smack in the middle.

I was thinking about it, and while our cars may not suffer from the same extreme lack of rigidity you're examples displayed, we are not curing the problem simply by adding a STB. Think of it this way, Strut toweres are "flimsy" right? so what happens when you just add a bar across the tops of them? You get Two "flimsy" strut towers flexing together, whether it be front or rear, What I'm trying to get at is, unless they are triangulated, they aren't really doing much, and definently not there full potential. The front one needs to be tied to the firewall, the rear one can go to the floor for a third attaching place.

[MattR]

Originally Posted by bruspeed

What I'm trying to get at is, unless they are triangulated, they aren't really doing much

Agreed. I think that simply linking them together is only adding little benifit. bracing it to something else makes sense.

[cody]

Originally Posted by bruspeed

I was thinking about it, and while our cars may not suffer from the same extreme lack of rigidity you're examples displayed, we are not curing the problem simply by adding a STB. Think of it this way, Strut toweres are "flimsy" right? so what happens when you just add a bar across the tops of them? You get Two "flimsy" strut towers flexing together, whether it be front or rear, What I'm trying to get at is, unless they are triangulated, they aren't really doing much, and definently not there full potential. The front one needs to be tied to the firewall, the rear one can go to the floor for a third attaching place.

No doubt that would help...but then, of course, you're giving up even more trunk space, drilling holes in the car, and increasing cost. It may be worth it if your goal is to keep the chassis rigid, but the standard bars work well at preventing the wheels from losing negative camber from the towers flexing as you take a hard turn. This is because the outside wheel has as much as 100% of the latteral force in a corner (RE: lifting a wheel) the inside wheel's strut tower is experiencing little or no latteral force when the wheel is lifted, so you might as well use that structural integrity to supplement that of the "outside" strut tower.

[bruspeed]

Originally Posted by MattR

Good discussion boys..god damn....

So, wait until I tell you that I'm running no rear bar on the Sti. Double adjustable Coilovers and 8k springs FTW.

So, I didn't really hear how you were gonna accomplish you're goal when everyone was chattin last night, You're gonna go 8k all the way around? will that create the same or similar handling characteristics as having the sway set to "full?" But still allow the suspension to really be independent?

[bruspeed]

Originally Posted by cody

No doubt that would help...but then, of course, you're giving up even more trunk space, drilling holes in the car, and increasing cost. It may be worth it if your goal is to keep the chassis rigid, but the standard bars work well at preventing the wheels from losing negative camber from the towers flexing as you take a hard turn. This is because the outside wheel has as much as 100% of the latteral force in a corner (RE: lifting a wheel) the inside wheel's strut tower is experiencing little or no latteral force when the wheel is lifted, so you might as well use that structural integrity to supplement that of the "outside" strut tower.

come on dude drill holes in you're car, tell them it was for "Love of the game"

[cody]

Originally Posted by bruspeed

come on dude drill holes in you're car, tell them it was for "Love of the game"

Some of us are more "Extreme" than others.

*insert Mt. Dew here*

[khail19]

I've drilled (and Sawzalled and Dremeled) so many holes i my car I'm surprised it still holds together. Maybe it's lighter now.

[Kevin M]

Speed holes!

[M3n2c3]

All you need is an "H" gear and you'll be set.

[Joeyy]

Ok, back to sway bars. Now that my rear doesn't want to loosen up, I'm going to put the front in. Next is STI pink springs before April. Any idea on a good price and place to buy. I think I'll let a pro drop them in for me.

[bruspeed]

Originally Posted by Joeyy

Ok, back to sway bars. Now that my rear doesn't want to loosen up, I'm going to put the front in. Next is STI pink springs before April. Any idea on a good price and place to buy. I think I'll let a pro drop them in for me.

Now, I may be wrong, but adding a front sway right off the bat will tighten the car up even more. And prevent it from rotating further.Try the springs first, I think that with a lowered car, and the sway bar set to full honk you'll notice things getting mighty hairy on long sweepers, and such especially when you let off the gas. I started with the sway, mounts and endlinks first (bought 'em used so I got a great deal) and at first, eh, it was a noticable improvement, then I added struts and springs and whoa was it ever noticable, that was on the middle setting, now that I have driven the car like that for the past year I finally went to the last setting on teh sway and it made a world of difference. I kinda have to be careful on on/off ramps as the car wants to get loose, but the car is noticabley more tossible. Just my $.02

[dknv]

edit: I moved it to OT.