Why the 4EAT is better then the 5MT - Subaru Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras

ArthurS · 2003-03-28, 09:45 AM

I am sure you al may find this article interesting, unless you have already read it. This is from 'hunter001' over NASIOC explaining why the 4EAT is better then the 5MT. This guy isn't talking out his ass either. Its quite long, but full of useful info.

Quote:

All of us are forgetting the main advantage of the Auto-WRX: the AWD system itself. When we talk of "Rally Proven", the "proof" is actually missing in the Manual-WRX. Here is the reason why:

The VTD-AWD system of the Auto-WRX is the most advanced AWD system of Subaru, with a true torsen (torque sensing) planetary gear center differential, which works in association with electronically controlled continuously variable multi-plate clutch-packs. The torque split is at 45/55, with a slight rear bias in power, in normal driving, unless more is needed front or back. This system equals in sophistication and effectiveness, the best AWD systems currently available in the market including the Audi Quattro (not the "Quattro" present in the Audi TT, which is inferior to the VTD-AWD). The VTD-AWD system is conceptually identical to the AWD system present in the World Rally Conquering Subarus, the significant difference being that the WRC cars have driver adjustable torque splits and are much more of a heavy duty kind. The hardware otherwise is identical in design. The Rally Subarus also have a true auto-manual transmission, which is actually a clutch-less manual, but the underlying AWD system is better adaptable to the Auto-WRX, not the manual-WRX, due to which the manual-WRX soldiers on with an AWD system that is essentially tractor-technology. "Gets the job done" but nothing to write home about.

The other Auto-Subarus do not have the torque-sensing center differential and drive more like a FWD car in normal driving.

The manual WRX on the other hand, has the same Viscous coupling AWD system present in all other manual Subarus, which is a reactive system, as opposed to the proactive nature of the VTD-AWD system of the Auto-WRX. The viscous fluid which is used to transfer torque front/back needs slippage before it can react and transfer torque. Also, since differential lock is acheived due to the viscous fluid being twisted (unlike the torque sensing incredibly sturdy planetary gear differential in the Auto-WRX), the torque-transfer is both slow and in-efficient. The AWD system of the manual WRX cannot be compared with the Audi Quattro or any other sophisticated AWD system. It does not have the breadth of operation (cannot transfer the amount of torque front/back like the VTD-AWD), the reactiveness (reacts slowly due to its very Viscous coupling nature) or the rapid torque transfer characteristics (due to the "reactive" nature of the system) of the VTD-AWD equipped Auto-WRX. With the Viscous coupling AWD system present in the manual-WRX, Subaru certainly would not be winning many rallys....just a heads-up.

Everything else remaining the same, I would have preferred a manual in the WRX. But in this particular case, everything else is not the same. Far, far from it. Let us face it - we admire these cars for their AWD systems and not for their "manual gear shift capability". So on that criteria, the Manual-WRX has a huge and glaring deficit. just my 2c

Later...AH

sperry · 2003-03-29, 05:52 PM

Yep... that's why you and Matt could get going on that icy hill we stopped on at the meet a while back, while I just spun all 4 tires. The auto's AWD system is much better than the manual's. However, I'm not sure the 45/55 split is correct, I read that it's 90/10 until there's slippage...

However, I didn't buy my WRX for it's AWD system as that guy's post suggested. I got mine for it's motor... 227hp boxer in a car half the cost of a Porsche. That's what I'm talking about!! And since I autocross, I really want the manual gear selection. I'll "suffer" in the snow, but that's not what I got it for.

ArthurS · 2003-03-29, 06:17 PM

No....its 45/55 with a rear-bias. Some guy let the rumour go around about the 90/10 thing, which is totally BS.

Here is a link to Subaru's website:

http://www.subaru.com/allwheeldrive/...eel_middle.jsp

And look into the automatic transmission about half way down and it says:

Quote:

......under normal driving conditions, the VTD system splits power 45% front and 55% rear to deliver more of a "performance" driving feel.

sperry · 2003-03-29, 06:52 PM

I bet the 90/10 split is what it is on the older GC8 platform.

ArthurS · 2003-03-29, 07:39 PM

I am not too sure. I just read about 2 people bouting it out about the 45/55 and 90/10 split thingy.

Either way, at least there is one benifit to me having a automatic.

khail19 · 2003-03-30, 11:09 PM

One minor correction to the quote above. The Audi TT does not use the Quattro system at all, it uses a Haldex AWD setup, which is inferior to the Quattro because the car is mostly FWD unless the front wheels start slipping.

Oh, and automatics are still for lazy people who don't know how to drive real cars.

Khail

ArthurS · 2003-03-31, 01:22 AM

Pretty much so. I am lazy. I have owned sticks before.

I love having a automatic in reno. I have rush hour every morning and afternoon and I don't have to shift at all.

I agree that auto's may not be as fun. But the first use of a car is for functionality and not pleasure. But since I got a WRX auto, I mix both.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2003-03-31, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArthurS

I love having a automatic in reno. I have rush hour every morning and afternoon and I don't have to shift at all.

I wish we had Reno's "rush hour" here in the bay area, that would be cake.

sperry · 2003-03-31, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

I wish we had Reno's "rush hour" here in the bay area, that would be cake.

Yeah, that 2 mile drive on city streets must be murder for you. It's not like you have to drive San Ramon to Fremont or anything.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2003-03-31, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

I wish we had Reno's "rush hour" here in the bay area, that would be cake.

Yeah, that 2 mile drive on city streets must be murder for you. It's not like you have to drive San Ramon to Fremont or anything.

Actually I ride my bike to work now, like your lazy azz should too.

It didn't look like you live any further away from your office than I do. I was talking about trying to get on the freeways here in the bay anytime other than 8pm-6am.

ArthurS · 2003-03-31, 11:54 AM

I know our rush-hour isn't as insane as the bay-areas....but it still gets frustrating.

2003-03-29, 05:52 PM	#2
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	Yep... that's why you and Matt could get going on that icy hill we stopped on at the meet a while back, while I just spun all 4 tires. The auto's AWD system is much better than the manual's. However, I'm not sure the 45/55 split is correct, I read that it's 90/10 until there's slippage... However, I didn't buy my WRX for it's AWD system as that guy's post suggested. I got mine for it's motor... 227hp boxer in a car half the cost of a Porsche. That's what I'm talking about!! And since I autocross, I really want the manual gear selection. I'll "suffer" in the snow, but that's not what I got it for. __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2003-03-29, 06:52 PM	#4
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	I bet the 90/10 split is what it is on the older GC8 platform. __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2003-03-29, 07:39 PM	#5
ArthurS EJ207 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 3,707 Car: 2011 Chevy Battle Wagon	I am not too sure. I just read about 2 people bouting it out about the 45/55 and 90/10 split thingy. Either way, at least there is one benifit to me having a automatic. __________________ Captain Murphy: I dub thee Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, beater of ass. Be a hitter, babe.

2003-03-31, 01:22 AM	#7
ArthurS EJ207 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 3,707 Car: 2011 Chevy Battle Wagon	Pretty much so. I am lazy. I have owned sticks before. I love having a automatic in reno. I have rush hour every morning and afternoon and I don't have to shift at all. I agree that auto's may not be as fun. But the first use of a car is for functionality and not pleasure. But since I got a WRX auto, I mix both. __________________ Captain Murphy: I dub thee Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, beater of ass. Be a hitter, babe.

2003-03-31, 11:54 AM	#11
ArthurS EJ207 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 3,707 Car: 2011 Chevy Battle Wagon	I know our rush-hour isn't as insane as the bay-areas....but it still gets frustrating. __________________ Captain Murphy: I dub thee Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, beater of ass. Be a hitter, babe.

2003-03-30, 11:09 PM	#6
khail19 EJ205 Real Name: Khail Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 1,769 Car: 2016 VW GTI Meets? We have meets?	One minor correction to the quote above. The Audi TT does not use the Quattro system at all, it uses a Haldex AWD setup, which is inferior to the Quattro because the car is mostly FWD unless the front wheels start slipping. Oh, and automatics are still for lazy people who don't know how to drive real cars. Khail

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