Cory, and the rest of you guys, talk to me about the 6.0L Ford SuperDuty - Subaru Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras

sperry · 2012-12-21, 10:41 AM

Since we had the baby, my wife and I have been tossing around the idea of selling her Outback sedan and picking up a crossover with a little more space... like a CX-5 or something. However, my wife just suggested that she keep her car and replace our truck instead.

First off, I love my truck... it's a 2001 F-250 diesel extended-cab long-bed. It's basically ideal for what we use it for: picking up crap at Lowes, helping people move, and towing the car to/from the track. It's not fancy or anything, but it's plenty comfy for how infrequently it's used. Also, it's been super reliable, it's got super low mileage, and it's paid off. The one single thing that sucks about it: we can't put a baby seat in it because the jump-seats in the back are too small. So if we ever need to go somewhere together with the truck... we have to take two cars.

So, the suggestion from my wife is that I look into trading the truck in for a newer F250/F350 with a crew-cab. Now, I could try to find another of the same generation with the 7.3L diesel, but the chances that there are any in the same great shape as my truck, or with the same low mileage is pretty low. The obvious choice is to grab a 2008 or newer with the sweet 6.4L motor, but those are all in the $30k-$40k range. So, I'm thinking about picking up a 2006+/- 6.0L F250, even though those 6.0L motors are absolutely notorious for failing.

My question is whether or not any of you guys have 1st hand experience with the 6.0L, what to look for when shopping, what it takes to make these things reliable, etc. I know that the big killer of these things is heat. Apparently the oil cooler is built into the block and is cooled by the engine coolant. But that cooler tends to clog up and eventually the motor goes blammo. The other big issue is the EGR cooler, which also uses engine coolant to cool the exhaust, and tends to corrode and fail. Finally, the FICM power supply takes a dump on a regular basis, and apparently there's some reason to swap the head studs out for ARPs. There are companies that make upgrades to address all these issues, but it's like $5000 in parts to fully bulletproof the motor, not including the labor to install it all. Cory, have you ever done that work? Any idea how hard it is to do without pulling the cab?

Now, if I could find a 6.0L truck that's in good shape for under $20k, and then throw $5k at it to fix it up, I could justify going with that generation truck. I'm just not sure how to know I'm buying a truck that's in good shape, or how hard/expensive the upgrades really are to make it reliable. And if I need to spend more than $25k on a 6.0L, it seems like I should just suck it up and spend $30k for a 2008, since in addition to getting a much more reliable motor, the rest of the truck is much nicer as well.

Any advice? Also, anyone looking for a nice no-frills diesel pickup?

MikeK · 2012-12-21, 11:41 AM

Get an F650. It has room for a child seat.

sperry · 2012-12-21, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeK

Get an F650. It has room for a child seat.

Actually, I really like having the long bed so I can fit 8' lumber in the back with the tailgate up. But a crew-cab long-bed is basically the longest truck there is. The only thing bigger is a crew-cab dually... and that's not longer, just wider. so, I think we're going to look for a crew-cab short-bed... which sucks for carrying lumber, but at least it's no longer than my current truck, which is already a PITA to park anywhere.

ScottyS · 2012-12-21, 12:22 PM

Also, look at the fuel mileage for various models. I can tell you that the 2009 4WD F350 Crew and Caravan shell that I use for fieldwork gets HORRIBLE mileage, as in 12 mpg to Ely and back. I've made this trip many times, and rarely is it better than that. And when my friend with an extra long and tall 2WD Sprinter tells me that he's getting ~25 mpg with the Mercedes motor, I almost cry.

sperry · 2012-12-21, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottyS

Also, look at the fuel mileage for various models. I can tell you that the 2009 4WD F350 Crew and Caravan shell that I use for fieldwork gets HORRIBLE mileage, as in 12 mpg to Ely and back. I've made this trip many times, and rarely is it better than that. And when my friend with an extra long and tall 2WD Sprinter tells me that he's getting ~25 mpg with the Mercedes motor, I almost cry.

I'm actually not too concerned with fuel mileage. My current truck gets in the 13-16 mpg range (around town and towing... a little better on a long drive w/o the trailer). Pretty much anything in the double digits is fine, since we don't drive the truck all that often. I think we average like 4000 miles/year on the truck... 12 mpg wouldn't be the end of the world.

Plus it's not like there are lots of choices in diesel pickups. I don't want a Chevy, and I'd punch myself in the balls before I own a Dodge. No matter how awesome the Cumins/Allison combos are... they're still surrounded by a Dodge.

MPREZIV · 2012-12-24, 12:01 AM

The only one of those jobs that I've done is the EGR repairs. It's a time consuming som-bitch, but not excessively difficult by any means.

As far as the others, unfortunately, if they require serious engine dis-assembly or removal, I don't think we've got the means to do it. I've heard of them, and how often they occur, but never done any of the repairs.

I know you said you don't want a Chevy, but I REALLY love my dad's Duramax...

rory_a · 2013-01-02, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

I don't want a Chevy, and I'd punch myself in the balls before I own a Dodge. No matter how awesome the Cumins/Allison combos are... they're still surrounded by a Dodge.

Isn't the Cummins/Allison combo incredibly rare, like a couple thousand produced in the 2004 or 2005 range? And most were likely all bought by light-duty haulers/transporters because of the added option cost, so mileage will likely be in the half million range (complete guess, but considering how many miles those guys rack up...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MPREZIV

I know you said you don't want a Chevy, but I REALLY love my dad's Duramax...

If it were me, I'd struggle to go with a Chevy/GMC simply because of the IFS. I know it's as strong, competent, etc., and apparentlyoffers a better ride (typically because the few I've ridden in/driven of each have been levelled or on a decent 6"), but I think I'd still have to go Ford/Dodge for the solid axle just cause. And despite my dad's 2005 Dodge 1500 (which was mine) holding up well, feeling solid as new, and mechanically sound at just under 100k, I'd probably have to go Ford because every other recent Dodge/Chrysler product is basically a piece of garbage aside from the four-door Rubi Wrangler and 2011+ Grand Cherokee - and neither of those are worth the money.

Kevin M · 2013-01-02, 12:19 PM

IFS >>> solid axle for anything but high-articulation offroad stuff. For all the same reasons your Miata has IRS instead of a live axle.

sperry · 2013-01-02, 03:13 PM

It almost doesn't matter since I prefer the Fords and they're like $3000 cheaper than the equivalent Chevy/Dodge.

The only reason to look at Chevy/Dodge is if I can find a nice low mileage '07 or something from the same year the Fords still had the 6.0L motors... but since they cost the same as an '08 Ford with the 6.4L motor, it still seems silly for me to consider them.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2013-01-09, 11:34 AM

Solid axles suck, especially for off road use. That is all.

sperry · 2013-01-09, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Solid axles suck, especially for off road use. That is all.

I'm going to guess that what "off road" means to most people (a tiny jeep crawling over boulders with spotters, winches, and beers) is different from what "off road" means to you (an armored truck screaming across the desert at 70 mph with guns blazing).

sperry · 2013-01-09, 12:48 PM

Also, I've expanded my truck search to include the newer ecoboost powered F150's.

On paper, they actually tow nearly the same as my 7.3L diesel does if you can find them properly equipped, drive much more comfortably when not towing, and they're much cheaper than similar era SuperDuties. They're just hard to find with a crew-cab, a 6.5' bed, and the max tow package.

Kevin M · 2013-01-09, 01:13 PM

What about range when towing? I imagine the fuel economy isn't as good.

sperry · 2013-01-09, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin M

What about range when towing? I imagine the fuel economy isn't as good.

Meh, I don't care. I don't tow enough (load-wise and frequency-wise) for it to make a big difference.

In fact, that's perhaps the best reason to switch to gas... the premium I pay for the diesel motor doesn't pay me back fast enough in fuel mileage 'cause I tow like just 4 weekends a year. People are getting like 19 mpg in the F150s combined when they're not towing. I'm getting like 16 mpg in the F250. And diesel is more expensive these days than regular. So, even if the towing mileage is under 10, I'm probably still saving money.

That said... I'd still rather have a diesel. I've already paid up-front for the motor... I'm not sure "cashing out" on it is ever going to be worth it. And towing with the diesel is totally stress free. 90% of the time on the road, you can't even tell there's a trailer back there.

Dean · 2013-01-09, 04:57 PM

I'd trade my gas 5L NA F150 for a turbo diesel any day almost regardless of gas price difference. Towing without torque is not fun especially up a grade at altitude with a heavy load.

Stick to diesel Scott!

sperry · 2013-01-09, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean

I'd trade my gas 5L NA F150 for a turbo diesel any day almost regardless of gas price difference. Towing without torque is not fun especially up a grade at altitude with a heavy load.

Stick to diesel Scott!

You realize that the twin turbo V6 ecoboost motor in the F150 make 420ftlbs of torque right? That's only 80 less than my diesel. It also makes 365 hp, which is quite a bit more than the 7.3L's 250 hp.

The F150 has a towing capacity of 11,100 lbs if you get the max towing package... which is just under the 12,500 of the SuperDuty. Considering I tow like 6,000 lbs at most... it's basically moot.

That ecoboost truck is kind of amazing.

Kevin M · 2013-01-09, 05:39 PM

And that's stock. I bet stage 1 tunes on that thing are impressive.

sperry · 2013-01-09, 05:41 PM

Who wants to help me put an ecoboost V6 in a Miata?

MikeK · 2013-01-09, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Who wants to help me put an ecoboost V6 in a Miata?

In or on?

Nick Koan · 2013-01-09, 08:27 PM

Heck, you've got a welder, why not two smallblock v8's instead?

YouTube

Kevin M · 2013-01-09, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Who wants to help me put an ecoboost V6 in a Miata?

Cory, but only if we write it up and get it on the schedule before he hears about it.

sperry · 2013-01-09, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Koan

Heck, you've got a welder, why not two smallblock v8's instead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP3VZ1l4qgU

If it's going to be that kinda party, why not put two Cummings turbo diesels, the turbine from an M1A2, and the first stage of a Saturn V in a Miata? Quit half-assing, Nick!

Dean · 2013-01-10, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

You realize that the twin turbo V6 ecoboost motor in the F150 make 420ftlbs of torque right? That's only 80 less than my diesel. It also makes 365 hp, which is quite a bit more than the 7.3L's 250 hp.

The F150 has a towing capacity of 11,100 lbs if you get the max towing package... which is just under the 12,500 of the SuperDuty. Considering I tow like 6,000 lbs at most... it's basically moot.

That ecoboost truck is kind of amazing.

I forgot about the new conventional gas turbos being available. My NA 5l is a wimpy gas guzzling POS.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2013-01-10, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

If it's going to be that kinda party..

..Imma stick mah dick in the mashed potatoes!

rory_a · 2013-01-10, 09:54 AM

I just lost a post, so cliff notes - I bet you, and the family, would be happier with the F150 Eco Boost in the long run.

2012-12-21, 10:41 AM	#1
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	Cory, and the rest of you guys, talk to me about the 6.0L Ford SuperDuty Since we had the baby, my wife and I have been tossing around the idea of selling her Outback sedan and picking up a crossover with a little more space... like a CX-5 or something. However, my wife just suggested that she keep her car and replace our truck instead. First off, I love my truck... it's a 2001 F-250 diesel extended-cab long-bed. It's basically ideal for what we use it for: picking up crap at Lowes, helping people move, and towing the car to/from the track. It's not fancy or anything, but it's plenty comfy for how infrequently it's used. Also, it's been super reliable, it's got super low mileage, and it's paid off. The one single thing that sucks about it: we can't put a baby seat in it because the jump-seats in the back are too small. So if we ever need to go somewhere together with the truck... we have to take two cars. So, the suggestion from my wife is that I look into trading the truck in for a newer F250/F350 with a crew-cab. Now, I could try to find another of the same generation with the 7.3L diesel, but the chances that there are any in the same great shape as my truck, or with the same low mileage is pretty low. The obvious choice is to grab a 2008 or newer with the sweet 6.4L motor, but those are all in the $30k-$40k range. So, I'm thinking about picking up a 2006+/- 6.0L F250, even though those 6.0L motors are absolutely notorious for failing. My question is whether or not any of you guys have 1st hand experience with the 6.0L, what to look for when shopping, what it takes to make these things reliable, etc. I know that the big killer of these things is heat. Apparently the oil cooler is built into the block and is cooled by the engine coolant. But that cooler tends to clog up and eventually the motor goes blammo. The other big issue is the EGR cooler, which also uses engine coolant to cool the exhaust, and tends to corrode and fail. Finally, the FICM power supply takes a dump on a regular basis, and apparently there's some reason to swap the head studs out for ARPs. There are companies that make upgrades to address all these issues, but it's like $5000 in parts to fully bulletproof the motor, not including the labor to install it all. Cory, have you ever done that work? Any idea how hard it is to do without pulling the cab? Now, if I could find a 6.0L truck that's in good shape for under $20k, and then throw $5k at it to fix it up, I could justify going with that generation truck. I'm just not sure how to know I'm buying a truck that's in good shape, or how hard/expensive the upgrades really are to make it reliable. And if I need to spend more than $25k on a 6.0L, it seems like I should just suck it up and spend $30k for a 2008, since in addition to getting a much more reliable motor, the rest of the truck is much nicer as well. Any advice? Also, anyone looking for a nice no-frills diesel pickup? __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2012-12-21, 12:22 PM	#4
ScottyS EJ205 Real Name: It is real! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: RNO Posts: 2,367 Car: 1998 Impreza Wagon, 1991 Legacy Turbo Sedan, 2003 Nissan Xterra Class: tvFree Yes, I'll fix it for you. Again.	Also, look at the fuel mileage for various models. I can tell you that the 2009 4WD F350 Crew and Caravan shell that I use for fieldwork gets HORRIBLE mileage, as in 12 mpg to Ely and back. I've made this trip many times, and rarely is it better than that. And when my friend with an extra long and tall 2WD Sprinter tells me that he's getting ~25 mpg with the Mercedes motor, I almost cry. __________________ "Trend Number One is that people aren't getting any smarter." Dogbert

2012-12-24, 12:01 AM	#6
MPREZIV Token Real Name: Le Stig Afrique? Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: sitting next to a big yellow box Posts: 3,589 Car: 2001 Impreza 2.5 RS Class: 05 TDSP No, I won't work on your car. F your car*	The only one of those jobs that I've done is the EGR repairs. It's a time consuming som-bitch, but not excessively difficult by any means. As far as the others, unfortunately, if they require serious engine dis-assembly or removal, I don't think we've got the means to do it. I've heard of them, and how often they occur, but never done any of the repairs. I know you said you don't want a Chevy, but I REALLY love my dad's Duramax... __________________ "...these condoms have a topical anesthetic to reduce sensitivity, so you can last longer. What a paradox. You can't feel a thing, but you can f*ck for HOURS..."

2013-01-02, 12:19 PM	#8
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	IFS >>> solid axle for anything but high-articulation offroad stuff. For all the same reasons your Miata has IRS instead of a live axle. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2013-01-02, 03:13 PM	#9
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	It almost doesn't matter since I prefer the Fords and they're like $3000 cheaper than the equivalent Chevy/Dodge. The only reason to look at Chevy/Dodge is if I can find a nice low mileage '07 or something from the same year the Fords still had the 6.0L motors... but since they cost the same as an '08 Ford with the 6.4L motor, it still seems silly for me to consider them. __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2012-12-21, 11:41 AM	#2
MikeK Captain Turbo Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Reno Posts: 3,318 Car: 05 STi	Get an F650. It has room for a child seat.

2013-01-09, 11:34 AM	#10
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	Solid axles suck, especially for off road use. That is all. __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

2013-01-09, 12:48 PM	#12
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	Also, I've expanded my truck search to include the newer ecoboost powered F150's. On paper, they actually tow nearly the same as my 7.3L diesel does if you can find them properly equipped, drive much more comfortably when not towing, and they're much cheaper than similar era SuperDuties. They're just hard to find with a crew-cab, a 6.5' bed, and the max tow package. __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2013-01-09, 01:13 PM	#13
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	What about range when towing? I imagine the fuel economy isn't as good. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2013-01-09, 04:57 PM	#15
Dean Señor Cheap Bastarde Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003 Location: $99 Tire Store Posts: 9,294 Car: $.04 STI Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.	I'd trade my gas 5L NA F150 for a turbo diesel any day almost regardless of gas price difference. Towing without torque is not fun especially up a grade at altitude with a heavy load. Stick to diesel Scott! __________________ I am a Commodore PET --- Now get off my lawn you kids...

2013-01-09, 05:39 PM	#17
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	And that's stock. I bet stage 1 tunes on that thing are impressive. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2013-01-09, 05:41 PM	#18
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	Who wants to help me put an ecoboost V6 in a Miata? __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2013-01-10, 09:54 AM	#25
rory_a EJ251 Real Name: Rory Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 607 Car: Miata, shit. Class: Out Classed NOW WITH 100% LESS STI!	I just lost a post, so cliff notes - I bet you, and the family, would be happier with the F150 Eco Boost in the long run.