TGV valve deletes

[ryan4601]

well for those of you who dont know i had my TGV valves deleted with very good results. new numbers and charts are posted in the dyno numbers sticky. For those who wonder about the codes, the accessport or ecutek are able to eliminate them and allow the car to run properly. not a bad increase for a small mod.
ryan

[Nick Koan]

Numbers look good. About an extra 10hp and 10lb/ft of torque.

How is the throttle response? Much better?

[ryan4601]

well i think it it definitly better. i get to peak boost at the same rpm as before with another 10 tq. the car seems to drive the same as before. mike W. was saying that the throttle body would be where the response would be. oh well...
ryan

[sperry]

I've got the TGV deletes on my car as well... but when you combine them with ported/polished WRX heads, an EJ257 shortblock, a GT30-10 turbo, Perrin FMIC, Perrin BigMAF, and 800cc injectors... well, you get some interesting results. Namely a tip-in throttle issue.

I'm being told the tip-in issue is mostly caused by the MAF and the large injectors (though I bet the added flow of the TGV deletes and heads don't help). Essentially, to handle the high-end of the power spectrum you give up low-end injector response, i.e. when you tip-in off idle, the injectors are running at minumum and can't modulate accurately enough, leaving a small hiccup. The issue's been tuned around, so I'm only getting a minor tip-in hiccup off a dead idle, instead of anytime I went off then back on the throttle, so it shouldn't effect me on track, and I don't really need a ton of driveability on that car. However, I'm probably ditching the BigMAF and possibly going to smaller injectors to lessen the issue.

Also, with all those bits and the tuning required for them, the ECUTek "fix" for the TGV delete CEL doesn't completely work... so I'm waiting on ECUTek to push a better fix that will work... unfortunately, they're all at SEMA this week.

[ryan4601]

yea luckily for me i am still only running the sti pink injectors at 565 cc's so daily drivability is still very good. i definitly understand what your saying about the "studder" at idol. with all those things done to your car somethings gotta give....maybe youd consider running stand alone EM to try and solve the problem...that way you could run MAP which might be better for your set up. just a thought.
ryan

[sperry]

Originally Posted by ryan4601

yea luckily for me i am still only running the sti pink injectors at 565 cc's so daily drivability is still very good. i definitly understand what your saying about the "studder" at idol. with all those things done to your car somethings gotta give....maybe youd consider running stand alone EM to try and solve the problem...that way you could run MAP which might be better for your set up. just a thought.
ryan

Considering how much money I'm into my car with this swap right now, I'm hesitant to spend more on something like a standalone EM.

The stuff I've got should be totally compatable with the WRX ECU and a reflash, even if it's a little less streetable. In fact, I expect the stock ECU is going to be more driveable than something like a Haltec, considering all the code in there for stuff like cold-start.

Plus, the car has to pass emmissions, since I'm keeping it street legal until I can buy a house to park a truck and trailer at. I don't think I can pass an OBD-II test with a standalone EM unless I do some really creative wiring.

[ryan4601]

doh...forgot about the smog testing thing. yea that would be pretty difficult with stand alone. and yea cold starts with stand alone suck....just ask my brother...good luck with your car.
ryan

[GST Mike]

Originally Posted by sperry

I've got the TGV deletes on my car as well... but when you combine them with ported/polished WRX heads, an EJ257 shortblock, a GT30-10 turbo, Perrin FMIC, Perrin BigMAF, and 800cc injectors... well, you get some interesting results. Namely a tip-in throttle issue.

I'm being told the tip-in issue is mostly caused by the MAF and the large injectors (though I bet the added flow of the TGV deletes and heads don't help). Essentially, to handle the high-end of the power spectrum you give up low-end injector response, i.e. when you tip-in off idle, the injectors are running at minumum and can't modulate accurately enough, leaving a small hiccup. The issue's been tuned around, so I'm only getting a minor tip-in hiccup off a dead idle, instead of anytime I went off then back on the throttle, so it shouldn't effect me on track, and I don't really need a ton of driveability on that car. However, I'm probably ditching the BigMAF and possibly going to smaller injectors to lessen the issue.

Also, with all those bits and the tuning required for them, the ECUTek "fix" for the TGV delete CEL doesn't completely work... so I'm waiting on ECUTek to push a better fix that will work... unfortunately, they're all at SEMA this week.

What you have described sounds nothing like TGV related issues and more like incorrect injector on times and MAF scaling. I would suggest you start with confirming the injector on times are right for the injectors (assuming your using PE800cc injectors you need the on times changed significantly).

If your tuning this setup yourself hit me up offline I'll give you the base stuff I use.

Mike

[sperry]

Thanks for the offer Mike! However, the car's being tuned over at S-Squared. They've gotten things pretty well straightened out. You're right, it's an injector issue. Essentially the injectors are too big for my application, and my driveability is suffering. However, I got such a raging deal on the injectors, I'll probably just keep 'em, since this is my track car, so I'm not concerned about driveability too much. Plus the injectors will be usefull if/when I go with a bigger turbo... perhaps a GT30-11 or -12... or FP Green...

Either way, they've tuned around the tip-in issue so it only occurs off a dead idle and it's greatly reduced, so it's not going to be an issue for me on track at all.

The only thing I'm wondering now is if the Access Port might somehow handle this problem better than my ECUTek reflash... any ideas? From what I know, I don't think the method of reflashing would make a difference, but I thought I'd mention it.

[GST Mike]

Given the same tuner there should be no difference in results between the EcuTek reflash and Cobb Pro Tune as both have access to the area's of the ECU you need for your application. One thing I will say is that MAF scaling is 100x easier for the tuner with Pro Tuner. To give you an idea I have speant a day working on MAF scaling alone on some applications with crazy MAF and turbo setups with EcuTek, I have accomplished the same with the Pro Tuner in about an hour.

What is a GT30 -10? sounds like one of the bolt on turbo's with a Garrett center cartridge. What size wheel does it have?

If it were me on your setup used for track I would probably not bother with one of those wannabe GT30r turbo's and would indeed use something like the green which seems to perform very well.

Mike

[sperry]

Slowboy GT30-10: http://www.garagetuning.com/Products/turbo.htm

I got it used through the shop at a good price... and intended to use it on my 2.0L motor. But since the 2.0L broke, and I'm replacing it with the EJ257, the turbo is a little undersized. However, I'm gonna get retarded quick spool which will be awesome for autocross, and it should be totally lag-less on track. So it'll be a hoot to drive, even if I'm giving up the top-end and peak numbers a bit.

If I knew I was going to be going to the EJ257 so soon, I probably would have gone another route with the turbo selection, but I'm still curious to see how this GT30-10 will do, and I expect to kick-ass on the low end, which is where all the fun it IMO anyway.

[cody]

I'd be stoked if I were you Scott...you don't want a dyno queen, you want a track/autoX monster anyway.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by cody

I'd be stoked if I were you Scott...you don't want a dyno queen, you want a track/autoX monster anyway.

Absolutely! However, the GT30-10 is probably going to hobble my top end, which means I'm gonna get pulled on down long straights, like the front straight at RFR, by anyone w/ an STi w/ a new turbo... basically, the 30-10 will act like a stock STi turbo w/ earlier spool. My money would have probably been better spent on either a cheap vf39 (stock STi turbo) or on something a little larger. But, I will probably have a bit of an advantage at autocross, which is cool even though I'm trying to focus more on track/trials than autocross.

[GST Mike]

Originally Posted by cody

I'd be stoked if I were you Scott...you don't want a dyno queen, you want a track/autoX monster anyway.

It would hardly be that with that turbo or the Green, in fact I would wager money the green will not only out spool that turbo but also out perform it up top.

Mike

[sperry]

Originally Posted by GST Mike

It would hardly be that with that turbo or the Green, in fact I would wager money the green will not only out spool that turbo but also out perform it up top.

Mike

On an otherwise stock '05 STI, the GT30-10 was making full boost (16psi) around 2800 rpm IIRC. If the green can do that, I'd be surprised.

I'm not saying the green is overkill by any means of course, I actually think it's probably a better turbo for my application than the 30-10, but I'd be very surprised if it can spool as fast as the GT30-10.

[GST Mike]

Originally Posted by sperry

On an otherwise stock '05 STI, the GT30-10 was making full boost (16psi) around 2800 rpm IIRC. If the green can do that, I'd be surprised.

I'm not saying the green is overkill by any means of course, I actually think it's probably a better turbo for my application than the 30-10, but I'd be very surprised if it can spool as fast as the GT30-10.

Not only does it, it makes more power from 2800rpm through 7000rpm on 91 octane.

On a TMIC STI I have never seen a better all round turbo period (we don't even sell them yet I still refer them all day everyday!)

Mike