Help with UpPipe - Subaru Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras

MattR · 2006-10-17, 11:30 AM

So I purchased a new Gruppe-S header for my car (04 STi). They had one in stock for once so I just picked it up. Now, I'd like to upgrade the uppipe while I'm in there, but haven't done much research on what is best., or if it's worth doing at all. Anyone have any thoughts? Is the uppipe worth doing? I was thinking the Helix looked good. ANy other brands to look at?

thanks

Kevin M · 2006-10-17, 11:41 AM

Coated Crucial uppipe. 'Nuff said.

MattR · 2006-10-17, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Coated Crucial uppipe. 'Nuff said.

'nuff said never makes me feel good. Is that really the way to go?

Kevin M · 2006-10-17, 11:47 AM

No. You might benefit slightly from replacing the uppipe, and they aren't that expensive typically, so it migth not be a bad idea. If it were me, I'd just get the one that the most people report using without fitment issues or leaks.

MattR · 2006-10-17, 11:50 AM

Yeah, the fitment is what I'm mainly concerned about.

rubberbiscuitt · 2006-10-17, 11:53 AM

i'm could be wrong, but i was under the impression that the sti(and 06+ wrx) already has a catless up pipe. and that usually makes it not a worthwile mod.

but if you must, i love my cobb up-pipe. mine is cast ss, and it's available in cast inconel.

sperry · 2006-10-17, 12:07 PM

My Perrin is a work of art, but the fitment isn't 100%. Frankly, I don't think you can get a perfet fit w/o getting a flex up-pipe, but high EGTs killed my flex joint. Actually, it might just be the high EGTs that eat through my gaskets, and not a fitment issue on my Perrin pipe...

Either way, you currently have a cat-less, heat shielded pipe... I see virtually no gain from a new one, unless you count the gain in under-hood temps.

MikeK · 2006-10-17, 12:21 PM

I have the stock uppipe, no problems so far, and I still make good power. An uppipe swap on an STi seems like a lot of hassle for not a lot of gain. In fact, what do you gain?

I would recommend sticking with stock, save your $$. As an added benefit, header swap is easy without doing the uppipe.

Kevin M · 2006-10-17, 12:38 PM

Mike's got a point. It wouldn't be any harder to change an uppipe later than it is to do it with the header anyway.

MattR · 2006-10-17, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeK

I have the stock uppipe, no problems so far, and I still make good power. An uppipe swap on an STi seems like a lot of hassle for not a lot of gain. In fact, what do you gain?

I would recommend sticking with stock, save your $$. As an added benefit, header swap is easy without doing the uppipe.

Thank You, I was mainly concerend that it did not fit well with the stock UP. Yeah, looks like I'll leave it alone for now and put my money towards other things.

cody · 2006-10-17, 01:19 PM

While the Crucial DP seemed a little tough to fit, the Crucial UP fit perfectly on my car when I installed them over a year ago. Supposedly the shape and ceramic coating will help with spool, but I'd only add one to an STi after exhausting all other reasonable avenues of increasing power. I honestly doubt it would make a dicernable difference.

WRXlerate · 2010-09-20, 11:16 AM

Trying to resurrect this thread, I bought these same headers and now that I am going to install I am going to do the uppipe as well even though I have the sti one in place. This is after reading grimm's writeup on the uppipe flow rates recently.

And since this thread was really old, I would like everyone's 2 cents on the better uppipe these days...flex/no flex, brand, personal experience/opinion....let it fly! Looked for the Cobb inconel and it appears these were d/c'd a long time ago but that would have probably been my first choice.

cody · 2010-09-20, 11:51 AM

I don't like the idea of a flexjoint, but do like the idea of ceramic coating. I have run a Crucial (solid, ceramic coated) UP for close to 5 years. Good fitment and no issues...good spool, etc.

Too bad Crucial is out of business.

WRXlerate · 2010-09-20, 11:57 AM

Haha, just my luck. Was reading through some reviews at nasioc and there is just a ton of stuff on there. Anyone else want to add their 2?

Kevin M · 2010-09-20, 12:08 PM

I've had the opposite experiences as Cody- I would only recommend flex uppipes, as it's super easy to botch the install without it and cause a gasket to fail. He's never had an issue, but when I worked for Vishnu we had a lot of people with solid uppipes have problems, and very few with flex joints. Way back in the 20th century it wasn't uncommon for flex joints to fail, but I can't recall hearing about one happening in a really long time.

Happily, I happen to have a coated flex uppipe (pretty sure it's a Grimmspeed) that I ended up not using on my FXT if you're interested.

cody · 2010-09-20, 12:37 PM

I have actually had my fair share of leaks at the two bolt flange at the bottom of the UP. But it started because I used a copper gasket and then I wasn't torquing the hardware enough. Finally a Grimmspeed gasket and lots of grunting got 'er done. And I won't go into my leaking bung issue that had me removing the PS header repeatedly.

Definitely get it installed right with a new Grimspeed (or OEM) gasket and get one with perfect fitment if you go solid.

sperry · 2010-09-20, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin M

I've had the opposite experiences as Cody- I would only recommend flex uppipes, as it's super easy to botch the install without it and cause a gasket to fail. He's never had an issue, but when I worked for Vishnu we had a lot of people with solid uppipes have problems, and very few with flex joints. Way back in the 20th century it wasn't uncommon for flex joints to fail, but I can't recall hearing about one happening in a really long time.

Happily, I happen to have a coated flex uppipe (pretty sure it's a Grimmspeed) that I ended up not using on my FXT if you're interested.

+1

I was one of those people returning Vishnu solid up-pipes. Probably even talked to Kevin about it before I knew him.

Once I got the flex pipe, all my problems with blowing gaskets went away... until the build on my motor that used to run 1700F EGTs all the time... then I started seeing blown gaskets again, until the flex joint finally blew out. But that motor is gone now.

I'd stick with a flex pipe. They issues with the flex joints have been pretty well sorted out. You might end up needing to replace it every 5-7 years... but that's better IMO than having fitment issues on the solid pipe and going through gaskets twice a year.

WRXlerate · 2010-09-20, 01:29 PM

Thanks
Sounds like flex it is then.
Kevin, what were you looking to get for the GS one?

WRXlerate · 2010-09-20, 01:35 PM

I've done 2 perrin's with leaking issues on one of them. I am one to agree that the flex sections should have gotten better with time and complaints of failure. Not that I am a big fleabay fan but I was reading some reviews on that low cost ERZ pipe that seems to be ok. I was originally sticking with the perrin because they claim theirs is the correct diameter pipe to keep the exhaust flow at its optimum velocity. Would that be an issue with some of these other pipes that are probably a bigger diameter with a flex joint to add turbulence?

Kevin M · 2010-09-20, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WRXlerate

Thanks
Sounds like flex it is then.
Kevin, what were you looking to get for the GS one?

I think I paid $50, so that's fair. And I can get you a deal on installation.

Kevin M · 2010-09-20, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WRXlerate

I've done 2 perrin's with leaking issues on one of them. I am one to agree that the flex sections should have gotten better with time and complaints of failure. Not that I am a big fleabay fan but I was reading some reviews on that low cost ERZ pipe that seems to be ok. I was originally sticking with the perrin because they claim theirs is the correct diameter pipe to keep the exhaust flow at its optimum velocity. Would that be an issue with some of these other pipes that are probably a bigger diameter with a flex joint to add turbulence?

The pipe diameter does have effects. If you're using a stock or similar sized turbo, you'd probably want a Perrin or GS or APS or other well-known brand. Somebody that you can honestly believe did real R&D to some degree on their product, rather than just slapping together something that "fits" and calling it good.

WRXlerate · 2010-09-20, 08:13 PM

Yep, staying with the stock turbo, so that is good to know. The GS one isn't abnormally larger than say a perrin, is it?? Just want to make sure I'm not going to be hindering more than helping.

2006-10-17, 11:30 AM	#1
MattR El Matador Real Name: Matt Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 10,660 Car: 2012 Toyota Tacoma Class: ?	Help with UpPipe So I purchased a new Gruppe-S header for my car (04 STi). They had one in stock for once so I just picked it up. Now, I'd like to upgrade the uppipe while I'm in there, but haven't done much research on what is best., or if it's worth doing at all. Anyone have any thoughts? Is the uppipe worth doing? I was thinking the Helix looked good. ANy other brands to look at? thanks __________________ "Dallas..We have a problem.”

2006-10-17, 11:41 AM	#2
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	Coated Crucial uppipe. 'Nuff said. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2006-10-17, 11:47 AM	#4
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	No. You might benefit slightly from replacing the uppipe, and they aren't that expensive typically, so it migth not be a bad idea. If it were me, I'd just get the one that the most people report using without fitment issues or leaks. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2006-10-17, 11:50 AM	#5
MattR El Matador Real Name: Matt Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 10,660 Car: 2012 Toyota Tacoma Class: ?	Yeah, the fitment is what I'm mainly concerned about. __________________ "Dallas..We have a problem.”

2006-10-17, 12:07 PM	#7
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	My Perrin is a work of art, but the fitment isn't 100%. Frankly, I don't think you can get a perfet fit w/o getting a flex up-pipe, but high EGTs killed my flex joint. Actually, it might just be the high EGTs that eat through my gaskets, and not a fitment issue on my Perrin pipe... Either way, you currently have a cat-less, heat shielded pipe... I see virtually no gain from a new one, unless you count the gain in under-hood temps. __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2006-10-17, 11:53 AM	#6
rubberbiscuitt EJ22 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: south lake tahoe Posts: 234 Car: L just push the brake pedal.	i'm could be wrong, but i was under the impression that the sti(and 06+ wrx) already has a catless up pipe. and that usually makes it not a worthwile mod. but if you must, i love my cobb up-pipe. mine is cast ss, and it's available in cast inconel.

2006-10-17, 12:21 PM	#8
MikeK Captain Turbo Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Reno Posts: 3,318 Car: 05 STi	I have the stock uppipe, no problems so far, and I still make good power. An uppipe swap on an STi seems like a lot of hassle for not a lot of gain. In fact, what do you gain? I would recommend sticking with stock, save your $$. As an added benefit, header swap is easy without doing the uppipe.

2006-10-17, 12:38 PM	#9
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	Mike's got a point. It wouldn't be any harder to change an uppipe later than it is to do it with the header anyway. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2006-10-17, 01:19 PM	#11
cody Candy Mountain Real Name: Cody Join Date: May 2005 Location: Californication Posts: 7,751 Car: 03 Pussy Wagon, now with more pink! Class: TESP OMG Internet!	While the Crucial DP seemed a little tough to fit, the Crucial UP fit perfectly on my car when I installed them over a year ago. Supposedly the shape and ceramic coating will help with spool, but I'd only add one to an STi after exhausting all other reasonable avenues of increasing power. I honestly doubt it would make a dicernable difference.

2010-09-20, 11:16 AM	#12
WRXlerate EJ22 Real Name: John B. Join Date: May 2005 Location: Behind a brick wall. Posts: 471 Car: 02 Soccermom Wagon Class: "sleeper" Destroying V8 Egos 4 cylinders at a time	Trying to resurrect this thread, I bought these same headers and now that I am going to install I am going to do the uppipe as well even though I have the sti one in place. This is after reading grimm's writeup on the uppipe flow rates recently. And since this thread was really old, I would like everyone's 2 cents on the better uppipe these days...flex/no flex, brand, personal experience/opinion....let it fly! Looked for the Cobb inconel and it appears these were d/c'd a long time ago but that would have probably been my first choice. __________________ Stuff sold by the gram is always more exciting than stuff sold by the pound. JC

2010-09-20, 11:51 AM	#13
cody Candy Mountain Real Name: Cody Join Date: May 2005 Location: Californication Posts: 7,751 Car: 03 Pussy Wagon, now with more pink! Class: TESP OMG Internet!	I don't like the idea of a flexjoint, but do like the idea of ceramic coating. I have run a Crucial (solid, ceramic coated) UP for close to 5 years. Good fitment and no issues...good spool, etc. Too bad Crucial is out of business. __________________ Slow and low, that is the tempo.

2010-09-20, 11:57 AM	#14
WRXlerate EJ22 Real Name: John B. Join Date: May 2005 Location: Behind a brick wall. Posts: 471 Car: 02 Soccermom Wagon Class: "sleeper" Destroying V8 Egos 4 cylinders at a time	Haha, just my luck. Was reading through some reviews at nasioc and there is just a ton of stuff on there. Anyone else want to add their 2? __________________ Stuff sold by the gram is always more exciting than stuff sold by the pound. JC

2010-09-20, 12:08 PM	#15
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	I've had the opposite experiences as Cody- I would only recommend flex uppipes, as it's super easy to botch the install without it and cause a gasket to fail. He's never had an issue, but when I worked for Vishnu we had a lot of people with solid uppipes have problems, and very few with flex joints. Way back in the 20th century it wasn't uncommon for flex joints to fail, but I can't recall hearing about one happening in a really long time. Happily, I happen to have a coated flex uppipe (pretty sure it's a Grimmspeed) that I ended up not using on my FXT if you're interested. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2010-09-20, 12:37 PM	#16
cody Candy Mountain Real Name: Cody Join Date: May 2005 Location: Californication Posts: 7,751 Car: 03 Pussy Wagon, now with more pink! Class: TESP OMG Internet!	I have actually had my fair share of leaks at the two bolt flange at the bottom of the UP. But it started because I used a copper gasket and then I wasn't torquing the hardware enough. Finally a Grimmspeed gasket and lots of grunting got 'er done. And I won't go into my leaking bung issue that had me removing the PS header repeatedly. Definitely get it installed right with a new Grimspeed (or OEM) gasket and get one with perfect fitment if you go solid. __________________ Slow and low, that is the tempo. Last edited by cody; 2010-09-20 at 12:39 PM.

2010-09-20, 01:29 PM	#18
WRXlerate EJ22 Real Name: John B. Join Date: May 2005 Location: Behind a brick wall. Posts: 471 Car: 02 Soccermom Wagon Class: "sleeper" Destroying V8 Egos 4 cylinders at a time	Thanks Sounds like flex it is then. Kevin, what were you looking to get for the GS one? __________________ Stuff sold by the gram is always more exciting than stuff sold by the pound. JC

2010-09-20, 01:35 PM	#19
WRXlerate EJ22 Real Name: John B. Join Date: May 2005 Location: Behind a brick wall. Posts: 471 Car: 02 Soccermom Wagon Class: "sleeper" Destroying V8 Egos 4 cylinders at a time	I've done 2 perrin's with leaking issues on one of them. I am one to agree that the flex sections should have gotten better with time and complaints of failure. Not that I am a big fleabay fan but I was reading some reviews on that low cost ERZ pipe that seems to be ok. I was originally sticking with the perrin because they claim theirs is the correct diameter pipe to keep the exhaust flow at its optimum velocity. Would that be an issue with some of these other pipes that are probably a bigger diameter with a flex joint to add turbulence? __________________ Stuff sold by the gram is always more exciting than stuff sold by the pound. JC

2010-09-20, 08:13 PM	#22
WRXlerate EJ22 Real Name: John B. Join Date: May 2005 Location: Behind a brick wall. Posts: 471 Car: 02 Soccermom Wagon Class: "sleeper" Destroying V8 Egos 4 cylinders at a time	Yep, staying with the stock turbo, so that is good to know. The GS one isn't abnormally larger than say a perrin, is it?? Just want to make sure I'm not going to be hindering more than helping. __________________ Stuff sold by the gram is always more exciting than stuff sold by the pound. JC

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