Superheroes!!

[NevadaSTi]

Ok everyone, I need some help. I got into a discussion with my kids yesterday regarding superheroes. We agreed that there are definitely different tiers of superheroes but we had quite a debate as to which superhero belonged on which tier. I was emphatic that Tier 1 belonged to Superman and Superman alone. Tier 2 was Batman and, grudgingly, Spiderman.

Tier 3 was Captain America, Wonder Woman, The Hulk and The Flash. But where should we rank the rest of them? In order to resolve the conflict, I agreed to ask other people's opinions. Therefore, please list your 10 favorite Superheroes by Tier (Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3 & Tier 4). Keep in mind that I have no clue where to put The Green Hornet - old, but still pretty cool. The kids want to list Larryboy but I have a problem with Tier 6 superheroes. What about Wonderdog? Mighty Mouse? Batgirl? Robin? How do you rank sidekicks? Also, how about the newer superheroes like the X-Men?

Ok, assuming we have solved the superhero ranking problem, we should also talk about great villains. Clearly Batman had the best Villains. The Joker, The Penguin, The Riddler and Catwoman must be considered to be among the greatest villains of all time. But where do we rank Lex Luther? Just for fun, let’s do a super-villain list as well. Same concept – 10 choices ranked Tier 1 through Tier 4.

Ok, this was sent out to everyone at my work by the head boss of the company. So, I thought I would open this up for discussion here.

Since the boss brought up sidekicks,

Top Ten Perks of Being a Super Hero's Sidekick

10. You get to use the Hero's cape as a spare shower curtain. (Feral dustbunny)
9. Discounts for being part of his "Friends, Family & Sidekicks" cell phone plan (Alfredo Garcia)
8. You're always first in line for the "hand-me-down" tights. (TheRob)
7. You look better in fall color outfits instead of the Hero's customary primary palate. (Bob Clemmons)
6. You get to meet all the up and coming super villans as they are chaining you to the railroad tracks. (spoticus)
5. The likelihood that you will be kidnapped by an evil mastermind is offset by being high on the Hero's list of people to rescue. (Walrus)
4. The Supervillain's sidekick often gets killed. You just get tied up a lot. (Enchained)
3. You don't have to deal with having your own pesky sidekick following you around. (Menasaur)
2. Holy catch phrases, are your one liners cool! (allismarie)
1. What do you think happens when the Hero saves two incredibly hot damsels in distress? (Rouge Panda)

So, back on subject, how would you rank Superheroes and Villians based upon the rules set up by my boss?

[100_Percent_Juice]

What are we ranking them on.
Coolness?
Popularity?
Ability to dispense justice?

[NevadaSTi]

How about all three of those.. People opinions differ. Just rank them as you see fit. That's why I put this in a Off-topic "Discussion."

My problem is, I've never been that big into superheroes. My favorites would have to be Superman and Batman. But Batman begs the question, "Does Batman count as a superhero even though he doesn't have any super powers?" My answer would have to be no. He only has technology and money. Obviously he has no fear of heights (which isn't a superpower), I could never be a Batman. I am afraid of heights.

[JonnydaJibba]

Superman sucks. He's too much of a superhero. That's not cool. Except for the part where he can see through stuff.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by NevadaSTi

How about all three of those.. People opinions differ. Just rank them as you see fit. That's why I put this in a Off-topic "Discussion."

My problem is, I've never been that big into superheroes. My favorites would have to be Superman and Batman. But Batman begs the question, "Does Batman count as a superhero even though he doesn't have any super powers?" My answer would have to be no. He only has technology and money. Obviously he has no fear of heights (which isn't a superpower), I could never be a Batman. I am afraid of heights.

For the reasons you just listed, Batman is the only really cool superhero IMO. All the rest have some sort of fruity special power that leads them to a life of crime fighting. Batman has only money bought technology and vengeance in his blood. He whoops ass at a superhero level without some gay-ass exposure to gamma radiation or alien parents.

All the other superheros have to deal with some retarded internal strife about whether or not to use their power for good or evil, or whether or not to get out of the crime fighting game. Batman's only concern is "how do I beat some gangster's ass w/o blowing my cover so I can keep my billion dollar day-job, also what sort of over the top vehicle can I build this week".

So here's my list:

Tier 1 Superheros: Batman
Pansy-ass Freaks in Tights: Everyone else

[MPREZIV]

I'm much more of a Super Villian guy than a Super Hero guy. I agree with Scott on the Batman idea, and on that note, my favorite Villian is the Joker. Although chemically disfigured, he has NO 'super' powers, and is driven entirely by his INSANITY, and desire to wreak havok and spread chaos.


And he's F*ing funny!

[WRX06TR]

Spawn FTW

[left footed whooten]

Where does Powdered Toast Man fit in to all of this? Bananaman? Dangermouse?

[Libila]

Bobby, copy and paste Ralph's blog about why Batman is really the only superhero.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by WRX06TR

Spawn FTW

Spawn's only cool because the comic has some of the best artwork in the history of graphic novels. Batman would still whoop his ass.

[WRX06TR]

Spawn is from Hell, and Batman is some rich snob who can afford anything he wants. Spawn banishes people to the depths of Hell to burn forever whereas Batman puts them in some lame Gotham prison that they escape from in a week...lol...i cant believe we are having this discussion, we're all nerds...

[Forgotten]

Originally Posted by Libila

Bobby, copy and paste Ralph's blog about why Batman is really the only superhero.

Got it.

Originally Posted by Ralph

Batman vs. Logic
Category: Religion and Philosophy

Alright. I'm trying this out to convince all of the bros and newjacks that Batman is a superhero despite not having powers. Accept these premises, follow to the conclusion. Any constructive criticism (pointing out of errors, contradictions, fallacies, overall weaknesses etc.) is welcome.

Batman is a superhero. He's the best superhero.
Let's approach this systematically.

1. In order to determine who is or is not a superhero, we need to know what is or is not constitutive of a superhero; we must define our terms and (thus) the boundaries of our set. I'm going to mention the problem of usage here, because it is important to the argument. For the sake of clear and useful thinking, we develop strict notations. We use words strictly that, when used in normal speech, can be vague to the point of meaninglessness. We can employ stricter meanings derived from variegated usage so that we can clarify our concepts and beliefs. Without stricter notation, every concept lies in vagueness and sentiment.
From here on, a hero is an agent that commits heroic acts. Accordingly, a superhero is an agent that commits super-heroic acts. The common usage of "super" is an expression of scale or magnitude above or beyond the standard. As a matter of obeying rational linguistic procedure, this word refers to the act rather than the agent. It is not only not useless but confusing to use "super" in reference to an agent in a general sense.* Expanded capabilities do not necessarily expand all of the actions or other properties of an agent or object.** To be genuinely meaningful or descriptive, the use of "super" should be in reference to whatever properties of an object are actually above or beyond the standard. This is also to avoid the confusion of too great a generalization. "Super" applies to what is supposedly super. I assume this is an uncontroversial premise. In application, it works out thusly: In order to determine what properties of our tentatively defined object are to be called "super", we note which properties are expanded. If an agent displays a standard human property in an exaggerated or expanded fashion, it is a superhuman property. This is an important point. We do not arbitrarily attach "super" to an irrelevant trait. Someone who possesses expanded human powers/abilities is superhuman. An agent that can lift 10 tons, or otherwise display strength above and beyond that of the standard, has super-strength.

*Deconstructive argument aka, examples that illustrate the confusion that lies with other uses of "super":
Suppose that we wanted to define a super-object. Could an object be just plain super? How can an object be flatly super without being super-objective? What would that even mean? And for super-agents? Super-agency? Not a worthwhile use of the words.

**Alternately, suppose a man possesses the ability to shoot heat-beams out of his eyes. Suppose also that he does his taxes. He pays a normal amount the normal way; he reviews his yearly earnings, fills out the paperwork, etc. Does this make him a super-taxpayer or just a superhuman who is doing his taxes? How is it useful to describe his tax-paying as super?

Now, differentiating a heroic agent from a non-heroic agent will depend on whatever definition of heroism is applied, but whichever definition is applied is, at this point, unimportant. Let's assume that agent B possesses this mysterious heroic property H. Now, let's say that B's H is expanded somehow (by performing majority of acts that are of super H level). Being that the rules are as they are, B now possesses super H as a property. B is now a superhero.

2. Defining heroism. To use any words in the family of "heroism", it is necessary to define them in such a way as to differentiate their uses from other words. A heroic act must be different from other kinds of acts. Considering use, a heroic act differs from other types of acts in two ways: altruism and difficulty. No act can be called heroic (in itself) if it benefits only the agent committing it without risking the dissolution of the difference between the words selfish and heroic. Nor can an act come easily within the means of an average agent and still be called heroic (though this is more a contingent fact about the word's apprehension). Meeting both criteria is necessary. To build a 1:1 scale Deathstar model in the desert would take a heroic effort, but not a single life would be spared an iota of misery. Alternately, donating a computer to a school benefits children, but is not a task above and beyond the means of a normal man. Further, the scale of the acts comes into play. Saving a child from a burning building is heroic. Saving a thousand children single-handedly from disparate burning buildings in a single day is altruism beyond the means of any human being (barring large networks of operatives, the organization of which would be a nearly superhman act for a single person). A deficit of natural abilities or resources becomes an asset of heroism. So, if scale and difficulty determine the magnitude of heroism, then suitable scale and difficulty in relation to the abilities of the agent results in superheroism.

3. Batman has the following achievements/acts under his belt:
-soundly defeating Superman in The Dark Knight Returns (a definitive take on his character but not a canonical/in-continuity story)

-besting Superman in the canonical Hush storyline

-driving off a rampaging Solomon Grundy in the Gotham sewers (Batman: The Long Halloween, also presumably non-canon but character-defining)
*Solomon Grundy, while having inconsistent powers, has fought Superman physically to a standstill.

-the one-punch knockout of Guy Gardner
*Guy Gardner is an F'ing Green Lantern. A power ring dependent on will and imagination is no use against someone with a superior mind, as was illustrated in Identity Crisis by Deathstroke.

-defeating the Justice League indirectly with his files on their weaknesses and plans for eliminating them in the Tower of Babel JLA storyline (canon)

-major involvement in cosmic crises including, but not limited to: Infinite Crisis, Crisis on Infinite Earths, battles against Despero, Darkseid, Starro, and Amazo, the Final Night, the JLA's battle against Angels from Heaven, etc.

4. In summation, Batman has, in his biography, a long (longer than here presented) list of (A-list) actions that resulted in the preservation of up to billions of lives. Moreover, he has committed these acts without recognizable super-abilities. The list far exceeds the standard for heroism. By 2,3.

:.

5. Batman is a superhero by 1, 4.

6. Batman is potentially the greatest superhero by 2, 3, 5.

"It's not about where you were born. Or what powers you have. Or what you wear on your chest. It's about what you do. It's about action." - Superman. Super-F'ing-Man

***These standards can be applied to Blue Beetle, but the only A-list thing he ever did was have Maxwell Lord shoot him in the head.

[Libila]

Thank you Pete!

[WRX06TR]

This Batman? LOL

[Emboyoyo]

I like Spiderman and The Ninja Turtles!!
I used to like Superman but he doesn't kick ass like the other superheros.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by WRX06TR

This Batman? LOL

No, this Batman:

[100_Percent_Juice]

^That batman is clearly about to get shanked in his rubber chest. Thats what he gets for trying to rape the hostages!

Spawn FTW!!!

[Bob Danger]

Spawn is a chump.

[100_Percent_Juice]

Bob dont hate just because your hero was sailor moon.

[Bob Danger]

Originally Posted by 100_Percent_Juice

Bob dont hate just because your hero was sailor moon.

No way dude, I'm all about Underdog, all the powers of superman, without the weakness.

[Double Phister]

Originally Posted by left footed whooten

Where does Powdered Toast Man fit in to all of this? Bananaman? Dangermouse?

I forgot about PTM.
What about The Tick? The live one not the cartoon.

Are the Thundercats or Voltron superheroes?

[Kevin M]

The Tick gets points for being a superhero despite incredibly poor mental accutiy.

[WRX06TR]

Originally Posted by Bob Danger

No way dude, I'm all about Underdog, all the powers of superman, without the weakness.

Yea the only weaknesses that Underdog has is the fear of the vaccum cleaner, rolled newspapers, and his fondness to fetch...

[100_Percent_Juice]

Originally Posted by R4ND0M_AX3

Are the Thundercats or Voltron superheroes?

no no no. If you throw them in then youll have to start talking about beast wars and transformers.

[100_Percent_Juice]

Oh and Space Ghost is the best superhero evar!