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#26 |
(40 percent vodka)
Real Name: Joel Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 4,446
Car: 2004WRX
Class: Baby-Hauler/GroceryGetter
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Or maybe he doesnt have his hands at 10 and 2?
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#27 | |
Captain Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Reno
Posts: 3,318
Car: 05 STi
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#28 |
Señor Cheap Bastarde
Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003
Location: $99 Tire Store
Posts: 9,294
Car: $.04 STI
Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI
Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.
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If that is the car I think it is, I would be surprised if it was correctable. If there was a way to get more front end grip on that car, they would have found it.
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#29 |
El Matador
Real Name: Matt Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 10,660
Car: 2012 Toyota Tacoma
Class: ?
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The engines don't care what altitude they are run at - it only cares what the air pressure, temperature and humidity is. Sea level at 30.15 inches baro is exactly the same as 4500 ft at 30.15inches, (Which is exactly where the Barometer sits for Reno and Oakland, Ca today!) as far as the engine is concerned. . To me, an altitude adjustment is just as necessary as a temperature and humidity adjustment
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#30 | |
Nightwalker
Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 4,063
Car: '13 WRX
YGBSM
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#31 | |
The Doink
Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 20,335
Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata
Class: PDX/TT-6
The way out is through
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That car looks like it's at the top level of autocross... think of it as an F1 car. I'd expect to see more dumb-ass stuff at lower levels of road race than at the top level of autocross. Sure, it's just autocross, but those folks are the best in the world at it.
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#32 | |
Nightwalker
Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 4,063
Car: '13 WRX
YGBSM
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#33 | |
The Doink
Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 20,335
Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata
Class: PDX/TT-6
The way out is through
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Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints? |
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#34 |
Señor Cheap Bastarde
Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003
Location: $99 Tire Store
Posts: 9,294
Car: $.04 STI
Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI
Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.
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In a powerful car, keeping the driving wheels, and the outside front down are the key. if that means the inside front or rear lifts, so be it.
Not positive, but I would bet the weight transfer rates side to side in autocross are probably the highest of any automobile motorsport except maybe F1. Not many suspensions can handle that as well as being flexible enought to keep the tires in contact on the bumpy stuff. And don't think that wing is bling. If it isn't functional at autocross speeds, I gurantee it wouldn't be there.
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#35 | |
EJ207
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: 39n53, 119w90
Posts: 2,698
Car: RX-8
Class: CS maybe
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#36 | |
Nightwalker
Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 4,063
Car: '13 WRX
YGBSM
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#37 | |
Señor Cheap Bastarde
Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003
Location: $99 Tire Store
Posts: 9,294
Car: $.04 STI
Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI
Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.
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Even in SM, the class we are discussing, you can't change the basic geometry of the suspension. Anti-sway bars, shocks, springs and camber/caster adjustment of some form is all you get. So the compromise in autocross is what setup gives the fastest raw times for the combination of the car and the driver's driving style, period. Unlike other motor sports where tire wear from countless sources, fuel mileage, and similar things just don't matter. Camber, caster and toe can and are set to angles that would destroy tires in most any other form of motor sports. very large anti-sway bars are employed to try and manage the lateral transitional forces that would again be overkill for other types of driving. A "perfectly" setup national level autocross car can be almost undriveable at the track due to lack of high speed stability, overly responsive handling, and tendency to rotate. ![]() Of the cars from of people on this board, my WRX may have been the closest to this configuration and it was a handful at the track, ask Scott, but it wasn't even close to the level of insanity the nationally competitive cars are at. Oh, and it lifted the inside rear at autocross, but not at the track. ![]()
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#38 | |
Nightwalker
Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 4,063
Car: '13 WRX
YGBSM
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I know autocross presents a different dynamic load picture than track events, and I also know chassis setup is frequently a hurried compromise during any given race weekend. The simple fact remains that lifting wheels means you just haven't figured out how to dynamically balance the car correctly, and you're leaving something on the table. 3 tires cannot produce as much grip as 4. "Autocross forces are too extreme" is not a good excuse in my opinion.
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#39 | |
n00b
Real Name: Lucas Kunze Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Reno
Posts: 21
Car: 00 2.5rs, Past toys 94 Camaro, 00 Vette
Class: STS
If the tires don't rub they're not big enough
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Cause power is all you need to win. |
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#40 | |
Captain Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Reno
Posts: 3,318
Car: 05 STi
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#41 |
El Matador
Real Name: Matt Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 10,660
Car: 2012 Toyota Tacoma
Class: ?
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So who's the favorite for "wrong guy to win PAX" for 07?
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#42 | |
n00b
Real Name: Lucas Kunze Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Reno
Posts: 21
Car: 00 2.5rs, Past toys 94 Camaro, 00 Vette
Class: STS
If the tires don't rub they're not big enough
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#43 | |
The Doink
Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 20,335
Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata
Class: PDX/TT-6
The way out is through
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#44 | |
EJ22T
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Reno
Posts: 9,445
Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red
Class: 19 FP
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FWD is the new AWD |
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#45 | |
Señor Cheap Bastarde
Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003
Location: $99 Tire Store
Posts: 9,294
Car: $.04 STI
Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI
Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.
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Also in autocross, the car has to be as consistent as possible. You only get 3 runs, and the car has to be predictable on run 1, not after 4 practice sessions and many sessions of tweaking on a given weekend. I have even seen AM, now XM "cars" lift inside fronts in tight corners. These are the fastest autocross vehicles made. Do you honestly believe these people wouldn't eliminate that if it was beneficial? Doing so would likely require them to compromise something else that would cost them time over a greater portion of the course.
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I am a Commodore PET --- Now get off my lawn you kids... ![]() Last edited by Dean; 2006-11-04 at 11:18 AM. |
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#46 |
Nightwalker
Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 4,063
Car: '13 WRX
YGBSM
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I submit that I am done arguing about this. I have made my point as clearly as I know how. If you think it is the fast way around a course, go on lifting wheels with bliss. I salute you.
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#47 | |
Señor Cheap Bastarde
Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003
Location: $99 Tire Store
Posts: 9,294
Car: $.04 STI
Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI
Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.
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Do you honestly beleive that the same setup that gets you through the Andretti hairpin fastest will also be the best setup to get you through the corkscrew the fastest at Laguna Seca? If so, I wish you luck, if not, then I have made my point.
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#48 | |
El Matador
Real Name: Matt Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 10,660
Car: 2012 Toyota Tacoma
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Well, I know it won't be me, next year will be a learning year for me....I've gotta that that Ken Garcia has a great shot from DSP, and Mike K and Scott (with a running car) are always a good choice.
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#49 | |
Captain Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Reno
Posts: 3,318
Car: 05 STi
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#50 | ||||
Nightwalker
Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 4,063
Car: '13 WRX
YGBSM
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I hate myself for even reading this thread anymore, but for the life of me I can't stop hitting the reply button.
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If I was for some reason responsible for setting up that car I might come to the same setup conclusions they did during the weekend, and end up merrily carrying a tire around the course in order to minimize my overall times. During that weekend. When it was over, I would set about fixing the problem of lifting a tire, by examining the available shock travel, considering a revalve, adjusting roll stiffness, etc. - in order to fix the problem. I wouldn't sit there and come up with fatalistic excuses like Quote:
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