And the debate still goes on (4G63 vs. EJ / Forged vs. Cast) - Page 3 - Subaru Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras

MikeSTI · 2005-01-11, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean

More displacement increases your ability to make more power with lower octane fuel, all other things being equal.

I'm with Mike K. on this one. I'll take a 2.5l over a 2.0, or 2.2 for use with pump gas every day, no matter what the internals. Of course, I'd prefer forged.

P.S. Do we know up to what VIN had forged internals on the US STI? Might be worth thinking about when looking for a used one.

Thanks Dean I think you get it!!!!!

we have a winner

I guess Kevin even if you feel you have to teach me how an engine works is great to have a the info posted some where.

when I'm talking about forged pistons I would assume everything around it would be improved so everthing went toogether well and not just the pistons themselves, so I may have been missleading in the beginning of this post. I just figured if you knew I wanted forged pistons and was going to remove my engine I would look at changing a lot more then just the pistons themselves (what a hassel). knowing that SOA didnt put them in there eventhough they put something just as good as them doesnt mean they went the extra step with other parts around it as well.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2005-01-11, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

A 2.8 liter EJ engine would have a redline of 5500 rpm, max.

Now that would be some funny shit. My 1964 vintage V8 has a 5800RPM redline.

sperry · 2005-01-11, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

First I've heard of the EJ257 having forged pistons. Is this just an internet rumor?

I heard it from Nate the last time I was in Sac. He said the 1st EJ257 motors to come over to the states were forged, but the cost of the motor (esp. driven by their desire to be able to sell crate motors) was too high considering how unnecessary the forged bits are for OEM power levels.

Basically Subaru built the 257 like the 207 initaially, then after further testing realized the forged pistons weren't adding longevity to the motor, so they decid3ed to save some money and went to the "semi-forged" or whatever you want to call 'em that are in the STi now.

Kevin M · 2005-01-11, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

A 2.8 liter EJ engine would have a redline of 5500 rpm, max.

Now that would be some funny shit. My 1964 vintage V8 has a 5800RPM redline.

My RS EJ251, with forged crank, cast rods and pistons, and low-end cams has a redline of only 6250.

Apparently the internals and stock valvetrain are perfectly good for 72-7400, but the cams make it pointless. As a stock motor, I think the strategy is perfectly fine.

Kevin M · 2005-01-11, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

First I've heard of the EJ257 having forged pistons. Is this just an internet rumor?

I heard it from Nate the last time I was in Sac. He said the 1st EJ257 motors to come over to the states were forged, but the cost of the motor (esp. driven by their desire to be able to sell crate motors) was too high considering how unnecessary the forged bits are for OEM power levels.

Basically Subaru built the 257 like the 207 initaially, then after further testing realized the forged pistons weren't adding longevity to the motor, so they decid3ed to save some money and went to the "semi-forged" or whatever you want to call 'em that are in the STi now.

Cool. I wonder if the motor I "loaned" Nate to put in the coupe had forged goodies.

I bought it... ummm, last december? Maybe 9 months into production?

sperry · 2005-01-11, 03:57 PM

BTW: This is the 1st thread I've ever moved *to* the Technical Forum!

Kevin M · 2005-01-11, 03:59 PM

I was wondering what you were waiting for.

MattR · 2005-01-11, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

BTW: This is the 1st thread I've ever moved *to* the Technical Forum!

I thought about moving it, but didn't want to ruin the moment for you.

BOO · 2005-01-11, 04:10 PM

I just think this is a neat way to bring people together not only for informative suggestions but to interact and learn about what makes people (Not necessarily tick) find their likes and dislikes...

At first I didnt know where to start it(This thread) so I am glad someone with more experience did it ..
Again thanks guys
Ps: and no, this isnt about getting back at what he or she said otherwise we would belong to a different site..

MikeK · 2005-01-11, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

First I've heard of the EJ257 having forged pistons. Is this just an internet rumor?

I heard it from Nate the last time I was in Sac.

Nate told me this exact thing last friday. Dean is right, it would be very interesting to get the VINs for these cars when shopping for a used STi

Kevin M · 2005-01-11, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeK

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

First I've heard of the EJ257 having forged pistons. Is this just an internet rumor?

I heard it from Nate the last time I was in Sac.

Nate told me this exact thing last friday. Dean is right, it would be very interesting to get the VINs for these cars when shopping for a used STi

Production date would give you a small margin of error (and you're more likely to find that somewhere than actual VINs). Finding out the exact number made could help pinpoint the production date too.

Kevin M · 2005-01-11, 05:05 PM

Heh, and this is funny- Mike and Matt, you guys have a good chance of having the forgies after all.

MattR · 2005-01-11, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Heh, and this is funny- Mike and Matt, you guys have a good chance of having the forgies after all.

Well, someone find the VIN's and we can know for sure.

MikeSTI · 2005-01-12, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattR

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Heh, and this is funny- Mike and Matt, you guys have a good chance of having the forgies after all.

Well, someone find the VIN's and we can know for sure.

last I looked Matt and myself had a large gap in Vin #'s, maybe because of the color codes and whitch colors they produced first?

edit: the last 4 on my vin # for my car ends with 1021, dont know if that makes it number 21 or 1021?

sperry · 2005-01-12, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattR

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Heh, and this is funny- Mike and Matt, you guys have a good chance of having the forgies after all.

Well, someone find the VIN's and we can know for sure.

last I looked Matt and myself had a large gap in Vin #'s, maybe because of the color codes and whitch colors they produced first?

edit: the last 4 on my vin # for my car ends with 1021, dont know if that makes it number 21 or 1021?

Probably 1021, IIRC the very first few STis went to East Coast dealers. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

BOO · 2005-01-12, 09:48 AM

noo you are probably right because it just makes sense since that is the closest Port..

MattR · 2005-01-12, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOO

noo you are probably right because it just makes sense since that is the closest Port..

Closest to what?

khail19 · 2005-01-12, 09:53 AM

Closest to farthest away from Japan!

MattR · 2005-01-12, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khail19

Closest to farthest away from Japan!

Hahaha. That's what I thought..

MikeSTI · 2005-01-12, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Probably 1021, IIRC the very first few STis went to East Coast dealers. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

well then I dont think I got the goodies being almost middle of the run then

unless they put forged in the first 1/3 produced

BOO · 2005-01-12, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khail19

Closest to farthest away from Japan!

No, what I mean is that the eastern coast gets everything First.. before the west sees the newest of everything ...

sperry · 2005-01-12, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Probably 1021, IIRC the very first few STis went to East Coast dealers. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

well then I dont think I got the goodies being almost middle of the run then

unless they put forged in the first 1/3 produced

I'm not sure on the numbers, but the 1st 1/3 of the cars doesn't seem too unrealistic a guess... and I know there have to be more than only 3000 2004 STi's!

I'd guess something like the first 5000 to 8000 cars came with the forgies. But that's just my uneducated guess. Where's Aaron when you need him?!

Kevin M · 2005-01-12, 11:50 AM

Mike your car could be #21, or #1021, or #621, or #555, or... I got to thinking about that afterwards and remembered that you never know whaere the consecutive numbers start.

MikeSTI · 2005-01-12, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Mike your car could be #21, or #1021, or #621, or #555, or... I got to thinking about that afterwards and remembered that you never know whaere the consecutive numbers start.

at that point where do we find out how to read the Suby vin?

must know must know now

hehe

Kevin M · 2005-01-12, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Mike your car could be #21, or #1021, or #621, or #555, or... I got to thinking about that afterwards and remembered that you never know whaere the consecutive numbers start.

at that point where do we find out how to read the Suby vin?

must know must know now

hehe

Honestly, I find it very unlikely that the run of forged piston motors was less than 1000, and at most your car is #1021. I'd be willing to bet you have forged pistons.

2005-01-11, 03:57 PM	#56
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	BTW: This is the 1st thread I've ever moved to the Technical Forum! __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2005-01-11, 03:59 PM	#57
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	I was wondering what you were waiting for. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2005-01-11, 04:10 PM	#59
BOO EJ205 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, Nevada Posts: 2,076 Car: 12+tires Class: Spec. without hard work, nothing grows but weeds	I just think this is a neat way to bring people together not only for informative suggestions but to interact and learn about what makes people (Not necessarily tick) find their likes and dislikes... At first I didnt know where to start it(This thread) so I am glad someone with more experience did it .. Again thanks guys Ps: and no, this isnt about getting back at what he or she said otherwise we would belong to a different site.. __________________ LOL.. The other White Meat ... lol ------------------------------------------------ subaru(STi) is a boys car, mitsubishi(evo) is a man's car - Jeremy (Top Gear) GC,GD,GM

2005-01-12, 09:48 AM	#66
BOO EJ205 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, Nevada Posts: 2,076 Car: 12+tires Class: Spec. without hard work, nothing grows but weeds	noo you are probably right because it just makes sense since that is the closest Port.. __________________ LOL.. The other White Meat ... lol ------------------------------------------------ subaru(STi) is a boys car, mitsubishi(evo) is a man's car - Jeremy (Top Gear) GC,GD,GM

2005-01-12, 11:50 AM	#73
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	Mike your car could be #21, or #1021, or #621, or #555, or... I got to thinking about that afterwards and remembered that you never know whaere the consecutive numbers start. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2005-01-11, 05:05 PM	#62
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	Heh, and this is funny- Mike and Matt, you guys have a good chance of having the forgies after all. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2005-01-12, 09:53 AM	#68
khail19 EJ205 Real Name: Khail Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 1,769 Car: 2016 VW GTI Meets? We have meets?	Closest to farthest away from Japan!