GT4 Challenge

[Ezdno]

Originally Posted by cody

1:26.429 and I'm drunk!

Drinking and driving.....for shame! Was it green beer?

[rallytheshytoutofwrx]

^^ why i didnt want to try when i got home last night... it hgelps me to brake early so i dont fly and then drift one way then the next on the first S after the straight... not sure if its the fastest way..

[EQ Tuning]

Hey guys... Cody finally convinced me to come join the challenge since I recently got a wheel for the PS2. So here I am... best I got so far is 1:20:238 but I have a lot to improve on. I'm happy to join the fun.

Thanks
-- Ed

[sperry]

Well, I finally ran a few laps... 1'20.403... but I gotta ask, am I the only person here that hates driving a pushy car?

I think every challenge except the one's I picked and the Miata have involved a street car w/ awful understeer. There's nothing more frustrating than turning the wheel and going straight off the course and into a wall. I don't know who over at Polyphony designed the stock setups for these cars, but I guarentee you, an E46 M3 *does not* push like the car in the game. Hell, my AWD SVX on stock suspension and a 70/30 weight distro doesn't push like this car.

[cody]

Originally Posted by rallytheshytoutofwrx

^^ why i didnt want to try when i got home last night... it hgelps me to brake early so i dont fly and then drift one way then the next on the first S after the straight... not sure if its the fastest way..

Yah, it's hard to slow down on the little descent there, so you do have to get on the brakes early. I should try it sober, but I'm dead from boarding right now.

Welcome Ed! It's about time.

First post finally updated.

[cody]

Originally Posted by sperry

Well, I finally ran a few laps... 1'20.403... but I gotta ask, am I the only person here that hates driving a pushy car?

I think every challenge except the one's I picked and the Miata have involved a street car w/ awful understeer. There's nothing more frustrating than turning the wheel and going straight off the course and into a wall. I don't know who over at Polyphony designed the stock setups for these cars, but I guarentee you, an E46 M3 *does not* push like the car in the game. Hell, my AWD SVX on stock suspension and a 70/30 weight distro doesn't push like this car.

I can't comment on the realism, but from what I remember of last night, the car spun out a few times (usually when Alex was driving. ) so it can't be all understeer.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by cody

I can't comment on the realism, but from what I remember of last night, the car spun out a few times (usually when Alex was driving. ) so it can't be all understeer.

It's easy to spin out a car, even w/ understeer... just drop a tire in the dirt. The problem w/ GT4's cars is that when they understeer, they're inconsistant... sometimes you can hold say 80 mph around a long turn, the next time by, at 75 it acts like you're going way too fast and it pushes out and hits the wall on exit... I guess I just haven't figured out what it is that makes a pushy car turn.

Anyway, here's my time after 20 laps or so... I'm gonna go play rFactor where the car doesn't drive like a snowplow.

[cody]

You don't have to drop a tire into the dirt to spin out the M3. I too have a big problem with getting the entry speed just right. I never bothered to look at the speedometer though.

[sperry]

Ok, I lied, I ran a few more laps... now I'm gonna go eat some pizza.

[rallytheshytoutofwrx]

damn.. good time!
i disagree with the whole snowplow thing. the m3 is a very tailhappy car, and the game reflects that- kinda. i mean think about it, in real life are you trying to push it 110% on high speed corners? how do you know an M3 at teh limit doesnt push a little bit...when i have a clean lap, the only place i really understeer is the big long turn before the tunnel..but i use to to help slow me down...

[sperry]

Originally Posted by rallytheshytoutofwrx

damn.. good time!
i disagree with the whole snowplow thing. the m3 is a very tailhappy car, and the game reflects that- kinda. i mean think about it, in real life are you trying to push it 110% on high speed corners? how do you know an M3 at teh limit doesnt push a little bit...when i have a clean lap, the only place i really understeer is the big long turn before the tunnel..but i use to to help slow me down...

The only way to make the M3 oversteer in GT4 is to make erratic control inputs at very high speed, or to floor it out of a very tight corner (like the hairpin in the current challenge). Neighter of those scenarios is really "oversteer", they're both just driving the car outside the car's available grip, i.e. spinning the car.

What I'm talking about is a controlable slip angle, where the rear wheels are tracking a circle outside that of the front. The M3 in this game does not oversteer, at all. If the rear wheels are ever tracking outside the front wheels, you are in a "save" situation where you need to do something to prevent a spin. On a fun car, you can use the throttle to steer... more throttle rotates, less straightens the car out. With the M3, more throttle pushes more, less throttle pushes less... you have to get the entry speed correct or you will not make the corner. Because the car is a pig, there is no way to correct mid corner, other than coming to a near stop and turning the car. Even dramatic throttle lift doesn't really rotate the car.

I challenge you to show me oversteer in the M3.... put the car into a steady state corner, and do *anything* to make the rear end come out. Flooring it makes it push, braking makes it push, turning in more makes it push. In short, there's nothing you can do because the car has terminal understeer. Now get in a car like the Miata or the Renault Turbo 5 Rally Car... put one of those in that same steady state corner. Floor it and you get power on oversteer, let off the gas fast and you get trailing throttle oversteer, hit the brakes and you'll probably spin... those cars have actual controlable slip angles.

[rallytheshytoutofwrx]

on a course like the one i chose, yeah, the pig just heads for the outside a lot. you have to really upset the car to make it do wat you want, like a snadinavian flick...its not as oversteer-y as i hoped. On the Nuyrburgring, however, i am POSITIVE i get oversteer. (so obviously could get it on any track, just isnt very fast on midfield)

on the 'ring i get perfect lift-off oversteer in the esses and the car doesnt plow off course if you know what you are doing... it feels right at home on that course, which is why i want to do that in the first place. you are totally right though, for this challenge the car seems like a heavy pig and it kinda sucks... if the suspension sould be tuned to equal the speed the new hp gives us... it would be a great car again..

[rallytheshytoutofwrx]

you say there is nothing you can do b/c the car has terminal understeer.

well there are many things you can do.. change the suspension from stock for one, tune an LSD for another. but since we cant do that in this challenge and the car has too much grip to induce oversteer on a corner exit... there isnt much..
im not saying you are totally wrong about anything, all i initially said was i got a lot of oversteer... which i can assure you i did. maybe i wasnt powersliding and it was only a drift because i upset the car, and in your terms that doesnt count, but i was countersteering...

[A1337STI]

Cody we need a video of what i was doing. i was getting the car to spin out while all 4 tires were on the tarmac. (try doing a feint drift ) i was complaining that the car would only understeer and he told me it was possible to spin out so i gave it a go.
If you decide way to late you want to Jump out to a better line just before a corner you (say the 1st hard right after the straight away and a bit of a left with a down) jerk the car left , and then corner hard right and floor it. hehehe Spin out time! (course that is doing a Feint drift in a RWD it should cuase a big drift / spin out)
1st and 2nd it did seem you could throttle steer a bit .
Short of that, yes on a clean line just flooring it really hard and tigtning the wheel cuased more understeer / plowing. never driven an M3 no idea if that realistic at all.
was fun. think i only managed a 1:30 or worse. i'm too used to having a wheel attatched to a desk *thinks of other excuses * ...

[cody]

You can blame my ghetto wheel that you have to hold between your legs. Makes me feel better.

I'm in the 1'21's.

[rallytheshytoutofwrx]

Originally Posted by A1337STI

1st and 2nd it did seem you could throttle steer a bit .

i knew it! haha i knwo how you feel, the steering wheel is only great when fixed and i even angle the pedals to be like a car...of course mine is broken so it deosnt matter.
i havent bested my 1.19.2xx but i'll try again tonight...

[zpeed]

1'20.418 is my best so far. I never let off the gas in many turn just tap the brake!!

[rallytheshytoutofwrx]

hmm good idea... i still cant beat a 1'19.2xx..im very consistent getting sub 20's but i always mess up in a different place....if i could put em all together...

[sperry]

When I get home from work, I'll cap the in-car replay of my lap so everyone can see the line I used and get one last shot at my time.

BTW, where's Gary? He'd probably run off a 1'17.9 in only 7 laps.

[rallytheshytoutofwrx]

damn, im close. marked a 1'18.6xx
damn! i'll go back again later...
my ghost keeps disappeargin after like teh third lap, buggin the h3ll out of me.

[sperry]

Okay, here's my 1'18.555 lap video:

http://www.seccs.org/gallery/Car%20P...0_1-18-555.wmv

It doesn't look like anyone else posted a faster time, so here's the next challenge:

Lister Storm V12 Race Car '99

at

Cote de Azure (aka Monaco)

The car should be available to all IIRC, and the track becomes available on day 183 which most people should be passed, and if not it's pretty easy to get to. Of course all the normal rules apply, and just to be explicit: wall riding is not allowed, as this is one of the track where is can make a difference.

[cody]

Nice lap Sperry. You pretty much nailed what I was trying to do all along. I think my problem is I tend to enter corners too fast and once you start drifting, it really slows you down. At least I think that's my problem.

[A1337STI]

blame the wheel ! blame the wheel!
That is a Fantastic lap Sperry! I noticed you are braking while you have the throttle down, are you using a controller or a wheel, if a wheel which one? (mine treats the brake and gas as an axis, same with Cody's)

[cody]

I'm pretty sure my brake and go pedals are independent, not on one axis, but I'll have to double check when I get home.

[A1337STI]

don't you recall the Colin setup screen ? Maybe its just those video games Colin / Toca 2 that treat the gas/brake as an Axis ... i thought it was due to the wheel. hold on, i may be about to learn something new for today