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Motorsports Chat Autocross, rallycross, and track event planning, as well as general motorsport discussion. |
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#126 |
Candy Mountain
Real Name: Cody Join Date: May 2005
Location: Californication
Posts: 7,751
Car: 03 Pussy Wagon, now with more pink!
Class: TESP
OMG Internet!
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Cool Race.
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Slow and low, that is the tempo. |
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#127 |
warehouse SECCS
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: SoCal...
Posts: 6,253
Car: 04 Evo 99 Cadillac
Class: street de le mod
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I saw the last 12 laps. no STi shots!
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Anjali? Anjali? |
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#128 |
Señor Cheap Bastarde
Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003
Location: $99 Tire Store
Posts: 9,294
Car: $.04 STI
Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI
Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.
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Best STI shot was the starting of the race...
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I am a Commodore PET --- Now get off my lawn you kids... ![]() |
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#129 |
The Doink
Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 20,335
Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata
Class: PDX/TT-6
The way out is through
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I gotta say, I'm very impressed that *anyone* is attempting to run an STI in that series. Right now it's sort of a "knife to a gunfight" situation... it's going to take a ton of work to make the necessary power out of a 2.5L 4-banger to match a racebred Viper or Vette. But it looks like the rest of the car is there: handling, reliability, braking, etc.
From what I've gathered the car is running a GT35R turbo on a built motor.... something that a ton of people are running on the street. Which means two things: a) they've got their own development program funded by idiots like us that spend a ton of money on our own cars trying stuff out ![]() Unfortunately, I don't know the WC-GT rules, so I'm not sure what their options are for power adders. Perhaps WI might help, but they're already running the spec 104 octane fuel, so I'm not sure how much there is to gain there. A bigger turbo and more boost is always an option, but then you have to think about anti-lag to combat the slow spool... which may or may not be legal in the series. Hopefully the smart people working on the car will be able to come up with something! Bottom line is: Gary did a great job getting an STI into World Challenge, and finished the race placing higher than he qualified. You can't ask for anything more than that considering the stage of development of the car. Congrats Gary! ![]()
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#130 |
Ask me about dubs!
Real Name: JC Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,895
Car: 2013 Triumph Speed Triple R
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Good first showing Gary, congrats! Sorry to hear about the brake problems you were having. Have you gotten those sorted out? Did I read somewhere that you were running fans in your brake ducts or am imagining things?
Looks like WC-GT is coming to Road Atlanta in Oct, I'll have to come out and watch.
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Actually, I am a rocket scientist. |
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#131 | |
Ask me about dubs!
Real Name: JC Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,895
Car: 2013 Triumph Speed Triple R
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Gary's recap from NASIOC...
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Actually, I am a rocket scientist. |
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#132 |
The Doink
Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 20,335
Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata
Class: PDX/TT-6
The way out is through
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I just watched the end of the race... Ron Fellows is the fucking man. Text book driving: used the handling of his car to setup and beat a faster, more powerful car. Awesome finish.
JC, IIRC the fans on the brake ducts were on the USTCC car, but I could be mistaken.
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#133 |
El Matador
Real Name: Matt Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 10,660
Car: 2012 Toyota Tacoma
Class: ?
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Ron Fellows is the man, Who passes on the outside on a street circuit? For a part time Cadillac driver, he sure knows that car well.
Anyway, it was great to see Gary in the event, and finishing their first race is a huge accomplishment. Good work.
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"Dallas..We have a problem.” |
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#134 |
EJ22
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hayward, CA
Posts: 191
Car: Zee L
Load, Efficiency, MAP etc etc etc
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Gary is the man, with the issues after the 3rd lap with the master cylinder to turn the lap times he did is nothing short of amazing.
I am nothing short of proud to have been able part of the team. Mike |
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#135 | |
The Doink
Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 20,335
Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata
Class: PDX/TT-6
The way out is through
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Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints? |
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#136 |
EJ22
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hayward, CA
Posts: 191
Car: Zee L
Load, Efficiency, MAP etc etc etc
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What makes you think it held up during practice and qualifying?
![]() I would imagine they plan to run something better on the next outing. Mike |
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#137 | |
The Doink
Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 20,335
Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata
Class: PDX/TT-6
The way out is through
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Are you guys running StopTechs front and rear? Will you have an issue w/ brake bias if you switch master cylinders, or are you already running a proportioning valve? I need a new master cylinder myself (I'm still running the WRX one with STI brakes, so I've got a ton of pedal throw). I'm insterested to hear what you guys come up with for a solution.
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#138 | |
Nightwalker
Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 4,063
Car: '13 WRX
YGBSM
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"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me." |
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#139 |
EJ18
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 99
Car: '04 Porsche Turbo X50, '05 STi, '05 Evo MR, '02 Ducati 998, '02 Ducati MH900e
love the quote "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"
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Watched that race, the STi just seems like a midget among giants. The lap time difference during the race was pretty huge but I'm sure not having any brakes was the majority of the reason.
Does anyone know if the ESX STi is still running the AWD system or is that car now a RWD? What motor are the Porsche's running? NA or turbo? It seems that if the Porsche's can be somewhat competitive then the STi should stand a chance too. What rules does the Speed GT series have about homologation? Do the cars have to come from a car lot and be built or can they be factory prepped race cars? It seems you could buy one of the almost turn-key Prodrive Impreza WRC S10 cars and set it up for street and you'd have a pretty competitve package... semi-auto trans and all the bells and whistles. http://www.prodrive.com/default2.asp?M=368 |
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#140 |
The Doink
Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 20,335
Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata
Class: PDX/TT-6
The way out is through
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I doubt a Prodrive WRC car would be legal in WCGT. The sequential gearbox certainly won't be, as the cars are required to run factory specified gear ratios.
Gary's WC car uses the factory STI AWD 6-speed, with factory diffs, etc. It's the same stuff that comes on the car from Subaru. The motor's a built 2.5L with a GT35R turbo on race gas... so they're probably making 400 to 450 hp at the crank. The Porsches use the 911 GT3's motor IIRC, which is a 3.6L flat-6 making 380 hp in stock trim... figure the race motors are in the 450-500hp range, plus the Porsches are generally the lightest cars out there. And even then, there are a ton of Porsches in the field and yet the races tend to be all Vette, Viper, and CTS-Vs up front... which makes sense, since those cars all make 400 to 500 hp *stock*... figure they're pushing 550 to 600hp in race trim (though the cars are quite heavy). Gary's car is simply just under-developed at this point. Similar to the Skyline GT-R that's in the series, no one's tried these AWD cars in this series, so the learning curve is very steep. I think Gary mentioned his STI seems capable of keeping up w/ the others in the corners and under braking... the car is just over-weight and underpowered. If they can drop some weight, they should be able to our-turn and out-brake the competition... and then all they need is enough power to keep up on the straights. I don't think the STI will ever make the power needed to chase down the V8's in the series, but if they can be close, then they should be able to out-handle the big cars, then get the jump on them out of the corners due to the higher cornering speeds plus the AWD traction. Then it's just making the car as "wide" as possible and running a defensive line. When you can run the inside line, and still turn as fast as your opponents, you become very hard to pass. You just have to hope there are no really long straights where the big horsepower cars can eat you alive.
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#141 | |
EJ22
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 291
Class: Low
lol internet.
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#142 | |
Ask me about dubs!
Real Name: JC Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,895
Car: 2013 Triumph Speed Triple R
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Actually, I am a rocket scientist. |
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#143 | |
The Doink
Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 20,335
Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata
Class: PDX/TT-6
The way out is through
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Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints? |
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#144 | |
Ask me about dubs!
Real Name: JC Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,895
Car: 2013 Triumph Speed Triple R
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Nasioc is down but here is one running 530whp on pump w/meth injection, they have a one on nasioc putting out 590whp. Granted that's on meth but it's also on pump not race gas. I didn't say the ESX car should make that much, but even with WCGT restrictions more than 400 at the crank should be easily doable. Unless they have to run a decent size restrictor. http://www.wrxatlanta.com/forums/sho...ighlight=gt35r http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=983345
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Actually, I am a rocket scientist. Last edited by JC; 2006-04-17 at 06:13 PM. |
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#145 |
EJ22T
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Reno
Posts: 9,445
Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red
Class: 19 FP
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Yeah, but the whole point of TopSpeed's thread was "we're gonna crank the boost and dyno this bitch until it breaks." Not much of a tuning philosophy for a race motor.
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FWD is the new AWD |
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#146 | |
Ask me about dubs!
Real Name: JC Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,895
Car: 2013 Triumph Speed Triple R
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Actually, I am a rocket scientist. Last edited by JC; 2006-04-17 at 06:37 PM. |
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#147 | |
EJ22T
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Reno
Posts: 9,445
Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red
Class: 19 FP
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FWD is the new AWD |
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#148 | |
The Doink
Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 20,335
Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata
Class: PDX/TT-6
The way out is through
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I didn't know there were people approaching 1000hp on the 2.5L motor, but I do know that those cars would be one step from useless on anything with more turns than a drag track due to the huge late power surge. Hell, on my TD05-20G trying to get smooth exits out of a turn at autocross is an exercise in anticipating the boost and letting off the throttle as the power comes in ('course that's more an issue w/ my suspension than anything else). Nevermind the reliability of a motor like that under road race conditions. My estimate for the current WCGT car of 400-450 was based on hearing that during the T-Hill 25hr qualifying they had an over-boost situation of like 26 psi where they estimated they were making like 650 hp. Since the WC tune is at much less boost, I figured 450hp would be a pretty realistic number. I doubt they're making much over 350 to 375 at the wheels (at least that's what I would have tuned it for if I was attempting for some semblance or reliability since I don't believe they have spare motors on the hauler at this point) which is still at or under about 500 crank hp, which is still just equalling the *stock* horsepower of the Vettes and Vipers. ![]()
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#149 |
EJ22
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hayward, CA
Posts: 191
Car: Zee L
Load, Efficiency, MAP etc etc etc
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Well based on the fact that the cars with the numbers being quoted within this thread all still run around the 122-126whp with there huge 530whp+ power numbers I would say that the numbers being quoted as WHP are useless.
What I am getting at is that on the dyno this car was tuned one (The ESX car that is) 400whp with a reasonable driver will run 11.4-11.6 at 120-124mph so you should be able to work out where the difference in quoted WHP is coming from. The last time the ESX car hit the rollers it span them to a little less than 400whp. The car is only allowed to run 22psi and was only running at the most 21psi all weekend (we have issues if the car goes over 22psi!). Something else to remember when referencing street cars with C16 and meth and 30psi is that this car runs nothing better than 104 octane and has to with stand 50 minute races not mid to low 11 second passes. Mike |
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#150 | ||
Ask me about dubs!
Real Name: JC Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orange, CA
Posts: 2,895
Car: 2013 Triumph Speed Triple R
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