ALK debate redux - Subaru Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras

Kevin M · 2004-02-22, 12:20 PM

I know, it's been beat to death, but I want to put this to rest in my own mind once and for all. SCCA Solo rules, Section 18.1.E states: Suspension components are unrestricted as long as they use the original attachment points.

Now, since the ALK is a bolt-on part, why is it not considered a "suspension component" using "original attachment points"? I am having serious issues seeing how the control arm bolts to some other stuff and is a "component", but the bushing mount bolts to yet more other things and is not a "component." Scott, do you have some correspondence from the techies at SCCA about this? I can, of course, have the ALK off the car and the whiteline "ALK bushing" in its place in time to run in SM, but frankly I like the car the way it is suspension wise. No need to spend money and effort to make changes that *hopefully* don't actually change anything.

Kevin M · 2004-02-22, 12:24 PM

Other than that, looks like I'm clear for Street Mod, rather than Street Unlimited. ALK is the only thing "on the fence." I can do whatever I want to my motor as long as it [mostly] came from Subaru, and it uses the word "drivetrain" rather than "engine" which clears the 6 speed too. Yay for small favors.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2004-02-22, 12:48 PM

I'm not sure what the Grand Viziers of Street Modified have to say about this lately. A while back the idea of the suspension rules seemed to be, "Unbolt any and everything from the car's frame, and bolt up whatever you want to pretty much where you want to - as long as it's into OEM holes in the chassis." So that would mean I should be able to custom build a dual A-arm front for my car and have it be legal as long as I'm not drilling & tapping new holes in the chassis or welding it on. But, some cars have entire suspension subframes that bolt up (like the Mustang's front end, in particular) to the unibody, and so far the Official Word From The Ivory Tower is that bolting up a new k-member to the frame like that is extremely not allowed. So, to (not) answer your question... who the hell knows. SCCA can suck it.

sperry · 2004-02-22, 02:50 PM

Kevin, IIRC it boils down to what SCCA defines as the "suspension". To them, the suspension is anything that's designed to move as the tires move up and down. Because the ALK is a fixed piece w/ a bushing, it is not part of the suspension, and therefore not unrestricted. Also, on the WRX, the ALK requires offset bushings to be installed on the U-shaped subframe for clearance purposes, and that's specifically not allowed.

It's a real shame it's illegal, since it improves the car's handling at a very reasonable price. The whole point of the suspension regulations are to prevent what Austin was talking about: removing everything and fabricating a completely new design at high cost that stomps everyone else. The ALK will neither allow you to stomp the competition, nor break the bank (you could even argue that it really doesn't make the car any faster, just more fun to drive). Disallowing it goes directly against the sprit of Street Mod rules.

My ALK is sitting in a bag in my garage just waiting for the rules to swing back into our favor.

See this thread for more arguments: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=491046

It looks like there may be some confusion still between the SMAC and the SEB... I guess SMAC (Street Mod Avisory Comittee) wanted them legal, but when SEB wrote the 2004 rules they made 'em illegal. Things may change mid-season like they did last year. I wouldn't spend the money on offset bushings. Just go stock for a while, then get the offsets or put the ALK back on if/when the rules are clarified.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2004-02-22, 04:33 PM

I would love to fab a dual A-arm front for my car just to see the look on some rule-nazi's face when they realized it was legal and there wasn't anything they could do about it.

Kevin M · 2004-02-23, 08:39 AM

Well, I've got 2 months to decide what to do I guess. At least I know for sure I'm able to run in SM now.

dknv · 2004-02-23, 08:44 AM

I've worked with some of the tech nazis, and some of them do it because if they didn't there are other drivers in the hunt for points who will rip their hearts out

AtomicLabMonkey · 2004-02-23, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dknv

I've worked with some of the tech nazis, and some of them do it because if they didn't there are other drivers in the hunt for points who will rip their hearts out

Rule-Nazis can eat my ass.

2004-02-22, 12:20 PM	#1
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	ALK debate redux I know, it's been beat to death, but I want to put this to rest in my own mind once and for all. SCCA Solo rules, Section 18.1.E states: Suspension components are unrestricted as long as they use the original attachment points. Now, since the ALK is a bolt-on part, why is it not considered a "suspension component" using "original attachment points"? I am having serious issues seeing how the control arm bolts to some other stuff and is a "component", but the bushing mount bolts to yet more other things and is not a "component." Scott, do you have some correspondence from the techies at SCCA about this? I can, of course, have the ALK off the car and the whiteline "ALK bushing" in its place in time to run in SM, but frankly I like the car the way it is suspension wise. No need to spend money and effort to make changes that hopefully don't actually change anything. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2004-02-22, 12:24 PM	#2
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	Other than that, looks like I'm clear for Street Mod, rather than Street Unlimited. ALK is the only thing "on the fence." I can do whatever I want to my motor as long as it [mostly] came from Subaru, and it uses the word "drivetrain" rather than "engine" which clears the 6 speed too. Yay for small favors. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2004-02-22, 12:48 PM	#3
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	I'm not sure what the Grand Viziers of Street Modified have to say about this lately. A while back the idea of the suspension rules seemed to be, "Unbolt any and everything from the car's frame, and bolt up whatever you want to pretty much where you want to - as long as it's into OEM holes in the chassis." So that would mean I should be able to custom build a dual A-arm front for my car and have it be legal as long as I'm not drilling & tapping new holes in the chassis or welding it on. But, some cars have entire suspension subframes that bolt up (like the Mustang's front end, in particular) to the unibody, and so far the Official Word From The Ivory Tower is that bolting up a new k-member to the frame like that is extremely not allowed. So, to (not) answer your question... who the hell knows. SCCA can suck it. __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

2004-02-22, 02:50 PM	#4
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	Kevin, IIRC it boils down to what SCCA defines as the "suspension". To them, the suspension is anything that's designed to move as the tires move up and down. Because the ALK is a fixed piece w/ a bushing, it is not part of the suspension, and therefore not unrestricted. Also, on the WRX, the ALK requires offset bushings to be installed on the U-shaped subframe for clearance purposes, and that's specifically not allowed. It's a real shame it's illegal, since it improves the car's handling at a very reasonable price. The whole point of the suspension regulations are to prevent what Austin was talking about: removing everything and fabricating a completely new design at high cost that stomps everyone else. The ALK will neither allow you to stomp the competition, nor break the bank (you could even argue that it really doesn't make the car any faster, just more fun to drive). Disallowing it goes directly against the sprit of Street Mod rules. My ALK is sitting in a bag in my garage just waiting for the rules to swing back into our favor. See this thread for more arguments: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=491046 It looks like there may be some confusion still between the SMAC and the SEB... I guess SMAC (Street Mod Avisory Comittee) wanted them legal, but when SEB wrote the 2004 rules they made 'em illegal. Things may change mid-season like they did last year. I wouldn't spend the money on offset bushings. Just go stock for a while, then get the offsets or put the ALK back on if/when the rules are clarified. __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2004-02-22, 04:33 PM	#5
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	I would love to fab a dual A-arm front for my car just to see the look on some rule-nazi's face when they realized it was legal and there wasn't anything they could do about it. __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

2004-02-23, 08:39 AM	#6
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	Well, I've got 2 months to decide what to do I guess. At least I know for sure I'm able to run in SM now. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2004-02-23, 08:44 AM	#7
dknv EJ207 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: 39n53, 119w90 Posts: 2,698 Car: RX-8 Class: CS maybe	I've worked with some of the tech nazis, and some of them do it because if they didn't there are other drivers in the hunt for points who will rip their hearts out

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