Hey Art, what DV cam do you have? - Subaru Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras

sperry · 2003-04-30, 04:56 PM

Yo Art,

I'm doing some research on DV cams... I'm thinking of trying to find a cheap one for in-car race footage

What cam do you have... are there any features you can't live w/o, any major gripes? I don't really know squat about 'em, so I was hoping you could lend me some insight.

Anyone else have a DV cam?

ArthurS · 2003-04-30, 08:06 PM

I have had 2 cams. My cam was a Canon ZR20. (not the one you see at meets). It was sick, but it didn't have a memory stick. That seems mucho necessary.

The cam I am using now is a Sony DCR-TRV25. The tight thing is, I can record onto DV tape or onto the memory stick. I can also take pics on the DV tape or memoery stick. So you have options. When you record video onto the memory stick, it is instantly a MPEG.

The best function of the Sony, is the night-vision. Without a flash add-on, you have to have this. Or spent a extra 150$ and get a flash. You don't need either if you don;t plan on taking any nights pics.

So in short:
Get one with a decent size memory stick
Get one with firewire access
Get one with Flash add-on or night-vision
Don't spend a ton of money on a bigger LCD screen
And of course ZOOM and MEGAPIXELS are important.

Ill bring my Sony to the meet tomorrow and let you check it out. Pretty sick even though I like Canon better.

sperry · 2003-04-30, 09:36 PM

Wow, sounds like a sweet camera.

I don't think the memory card is that important to me tho, since I already have a nice digital camera. My goal is just a cheap DV camera that I can dump video to my computer with. I've got Firewire and USB2.0... so I just need a camera that will output to the computer and some decent editing software I think...

Decent optical zoom and the night vision sounds cool. Also since I'm putting it in the car, I think good image stabilization should be on my wish list.

Unfortunately, I'm buying those Attack rims, so my budget for a camera is out the window

. I'll just use the video mode of my digital camera for the time being....

ArthurS · 2003-05-01, 06:47 AM

If you don't need a memory stick, then I would go with a Canon. (Of course this is just my opinion). They are nice camera's, with good zoom and LCD screen.

If you are going to do video editing, make sure you use USB 2.0 or FIrewire. Regualr USB transfer makes the video choppy and bad quality.

Here is a link for a good Canon:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=20330

You can find them really cheap on Ebay along with the rest of the Canon line. The next step up is the ZR25, but that has a memory stick.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2003-05-01, 07:23 AM

I went to Canon's website to check these things out but I didn't see anything about USB connections... do they have a USB port on them that you can plug into your computer? How does the transfer process work?

ArthurS · 2003-05-01, 07:31 AM

Well, the ZR20 uses firewire for transfers. As for how it works, you load up Adobe Premier (or similar program), and load the video from the camera. You can also yuse the program that comes with the camera, but it sucks.

The ZR25 and above series use firewire and USB. USB is mainly for the use with the memory card and quick transfer's. The firewire is for the DV transfer, since its much faster.

Most programs you use can identify the camera you are using, since you install a driver on your computer with the included disk. From there, its pretty much just point and click and transfer. That is until you get into video editing.

sperry · 2003-05-01, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

I went to Canon's website to check these things out but I didn't see anything about USB connections... do they have a USB port on them that you can plug into your computer? How does the transfer process work?

Like Art said, most DV cams use Firewire since it's butt-loads faster than USB. However, newer motherborads are coming with USB2.0 which is just a smidge faster than Firewire... but I dont' think there's any cams using USB2.0 yet. Most cams have USB1.1, which is barely usefull for d/ling still pics off a memory card.

Most newer Sound Blaster cards have a Firewire port built in... it's also known as IEEE 1394, so check your device manager... if you've got a newer SB card there's prolly an entry for "IEEE 1394 adapter". You can also buy PCI I/O cards that have multiple Firewire ports on 'em for around $30 these days.

Now, if I can find a decent used Cannon for under $200 I'd be stoked!

ArthurS · 2003-05-01, 08:25 AM

You should be able to. I am actually looking to buy a ZR20 again also. They were just so handy, and if you don't mind not having a memory stick, its the way to go. Should be able to get the whole get (and maybe a flash) easily for 200$.

Yea, I don't think any cams are using USB 2.0 yet. Hopefully soon. I notice when I d/l the pics and vids of my memory card, it takes forever using USB 1.1 and the quality isn't that good. But if I take pics using the DV tape, you have to then use a video editor (i.e. Adobe Premier) in order to extract the pics, but they are 10 times better in quality. So if you are looking at te ZR20, then I hope you don't take to many stills. You then have to crop them off the DV tape. (Pain in the ass).

1394 cards are getting pretty cheap. I saw one for 25$ at Best buy not to long ago. This includes a cable with it.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2003-05-01, 08:44 AM

I do have a newer SB card, so I probably have a firewire port then, I didn't know it was AKA IEEE-1394. I'd love to get something to take in-car footage with, but like Scott said it can't cost too much. I want to be able to hook it up to the TV to watch at home but also to the computer so I could post vid clips.

ArthurS · 2003-05-01, 09:04 AM

I would suggest then to really look for a ZR20. Its a few-year old model without a memory stick, but damn it still shoots really nice videos.

I should post some of the videos I made with

You can hook it directly to the VCR also and play from the Recorder.

Here are some good deals:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=20330

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=20330

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=20330

And here is some reviews:

http://www.gearpreview.com/film/minidv/zr20.html

http://electronics.cnet.com/electron...4-7657803.html

I also just noticed that some of the pics look differnet. There might be different sub-models of the ZR20.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2003-05-01, 09:27 AM

Do zr20's have a threaded port on the bottom where you could screw it onto a tripod? That would make it relatively easy to fabricate a mounting bracket for it to go in the car.

sperry · 2003-05-01, 09:28 AM

Yeah, I was just thinking the ZR20 looks like a good affordable camera... I just *hate* ebay... I never find what I'm looking for and I can't bring myself to trust to tools on there that are selling stuff. Can you buy a new ZR20 anywhere?

sperry · 2003-05-01, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Do zr20's have a threaded port on the bottom where you could screw it onto a tripod? That would make it relatively easy to fabricate a mounting bracket for it to go in the car.

Relatively easy... as in the one I built Tuesday?

sperry · 2003-05-01, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArthurS

You should be able to. I am actually looking to buy a ZR20 again also. They were just so handy, and if you don't mind not having a memory stick, its the way to go. Should be able to get the whole get (and maybe a flash) easily for 200$.

Ebay auctions are starting at $250 on the ZR20...

AtomicLabMonkey · 2003-05-01, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Do zr20's have a threaded port on the bottom where you could screw it onto a tripod? That would make it relatively easy to fabricate a mounting bracket for it to go in the car.

Relatively easy... as in the one I built Tuesday?

How did you do it?

ArthurS · 2003-05-01, 09:46 AM

To buy a new ZR20 is abour 350.00$ +

Thats why Ebay can be good. Just bid on people with high-feedback and you should be fine.

And yes you can screw them onto a tripod. I had one for mine.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2003-05-01, 09:47 AM

Hey Scott if you can find one of these zr20's cheap that could be our wedding present.

sperry · 2003-05-01, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Hey Scott if you can find one of these zr20's cheap that could be our wedding present.

Hehe.. not a bad idea... I'll keep that in mind.

ArthurS · 2003-05-01, 09:50 AM

If you find one thats new for about 300$ that is a awsome deal. I paid 700$ for my ZR20 about a year and a half ago. I bought mine through Dell.com.

Here is a list of Dell's deals on DV Camcorders:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...ategory_id=578

Some good deals including this panasonic (Butt-ass ugly) DV Cam:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/ProductDe...

ArthurS · 2003-05-01, 09:54 AM

Looks like Canon's new version of the ZR20 is the ZR60. This DV cam has no memoery stick either, but sells for 500$ new! It has better Zoom and a few more neat little features.

sperry · 2003-05-01, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by sperry

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Do zr20's have a threaded port on the bottom where you could screw it onto a tripod? That would make it relatively easy to fabricate a mounting bracket for it to go in the car.

Relatively easy... as in the one I built Tuesday?

How did you do it?

Got a 1" box aluminum tube, 3 feet long. Drilled 2 verticle holes thru it so the passenger hearrest posts slide thru it snugly. Drilled two holes on either side of each post, converted one side's pair of holes into a slot. Put a U bolt thru the slot and bolted wing nuts on the back. Tightening the U bolt locks the bar to the head rest. Cut the bar to the correct length, and attaches a tripod mount to it. Total cost ~$50... $40 of it for a decent tripod mount.

Okay, my description might make more sense with this diagram:

I'll take some pictures if it. The only issue is that it's not rock solid because the seat itself bounces. My digi-cam doesn't have image stabilzation, so a true DV cam w/ image stabilization would prolly look fine.

Pictures here: http://doink.net/gallery/index.php?g...Camera%20Mount

[img:3af62db52b=600]http://doink.net/gallery/Doink%20WRX/Camera%20Mount/Camera%20mount%201.jpg[/img:3af62db52b]

[img:3af62db52b=600]http://doink.net/gallery/Doink%20WRX/Camera%20Mount/Camera%20mount%206.jpg[/img:3af62db52b]

AtomicLabMonkey · 2003-05-01, 10:51 AM

Yeah, my passenger seat bounces when no one's in it, but I could just latch the passenger harness and tighten down the straps around it and that would probably hold it still. I'd have to fab a different kind of mount for mine since my seats just have one slot-shaped post in the middle for the headrests.

sperry · 2003-05-01, 12:44 PM

added pics above ^^^

AtomicLabMonkey · 2003-05-01, 12:52 PM

Ok I'm all fired up about having in-car video now...

you totally need to get us a DV cam as a wedding present!

sperry · 2003-05-01, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Ok I'm all fired up about having in-car video now...

you totally need to get us a DV cam as a wedding present!

Don't hold your breath too long on that one dude... those things are looking pretty expensive! I love you guys and all, but >$200 on a wedding gift and I'll have to ask your wife for sexual favors! :shock:

(I fully expect an ass-beating for that comment... just put it on my tab.

)

2003-04-30, 04:56 PM	#1
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	Hey Art, what DV cam do you have? Yo Art, I'm doing some research on DV cams... I'm thinking of trying to find a cheap one for in-car race footage What cam do you have... are there any features you can't live w/o, any major gripes? I don't really know squat about 'em, so I was hoping you could lend me some insight. Anyone else have a DV cam? __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2003-04-30, 08:06 PM	#2
ArthurS EJ207 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 3,707 Car: 2011 Chevy Battle Wagon	I have had 2 cams. My cam was a Canon ZR20. (not the one you see at meets). It was sick, but it didn't have a memory stick. That seems mucho necessary. The cam I am using now is a Sony DCR-TRV25. The tight thing is, I can record onto DV tape or onto the memory stick. I can also take pics on the DV tape or memoery stick. So you have options. When you record video onto the memory stick, it is instantly a MPEG. The best function of the Sony, is the night-vision. Without a flash add-on, you have to have this. Or spent a extra 150$ and get a flash. You don't need either if you don;t plan on taking any nights pics. So in short: Get one with a decent size memory stick Get one with firewire access Get one with Flash add-on or night-vision Don't spend a ton of money on a bigger LCD screen And of course ZOOM and MEGAPIXELS are important. Ill bring my Sony to the meet tomorrow and let you check it out. Pretty sick even though I like Canon better. __________________ Captain Murphy: I dub thee Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, beater of ass. Be a hitter, babe.

2003-04-30, 09:36 PM	#3
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	Wow, sounds like a sweet camera. I don't think the memory card is that important to me tho, since I already have a nice digital camera. My goal is just a cheap DV camera that I can dump video to my computer with. I've got Firewire and USB2.0... so I just need a camera that will output to the computer and some decent editing software I think... Decent optical zoom and the night vision sounds cool. Also since I'm putting it in the car, I think good image stabilization should be on my wish list. Unfortunately, I'm buying those Attack rims, so my budget for a camera is out the window . I'll just use the video mode of my digital camera for the time being.... __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2003-05-01, 06:47 AM	#4
ArthurS EJ207 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 3,707 Car: 2011 Chevy Battle Wagon	If you don't need a memory stick, then I would go with a Canon. (Of course this is just my opinion). They are nice camera's, with good zoom and LCD screen. If you are going to do video editing, make sure you use USB 2.0 or FIrewire. Regualr USB transfer makes the video choppy and bad quality. Here is a link for a good Canon: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=20330 You can find them really cheap on Ebay along with the rest of the Canon line. The next step up is the ZR25, but that has a memory stick. __________________ Captain Murphy: I dub thee Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, beater of ass. Be a hitter, babe.

2003-05-01, 07:23 AM	#5
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	I went to Canon's website to check these things out but I didn't see anything about USB connections... do they have a USB port on them that you can plug into your computer? How does the transfer process work? __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

2003-05-01, 07:31 AM	#6
ArthurS EJ207 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 3,707 Car: 2011 Chevy Battle Wagon	Well, the ZR20 uses firewire for transfers. As for how it works, you load up Adobe Premier (or similar program), and load the video from the camera. You can also yuse the program that comes with the camera, but it sucks. The ZR25 and above series use firewire and USB. USB is mainly for the use with the memory card and quick transfer's. The firewire is for the DV transfer, since its much faster. Most programs you use can identify the camera you are using, since you install a driver on your computer with the included disk. From there, its pretty much just point and click and transfer. That is until you get into video editing. __________________ Captain Murphy: I dub thee Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, beater of ass. Be a hitter, babe.

2003-05-01, 08:25 AM	#8
ArthurS EJ207 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 3,707 Car: 2011 Chevy Battle Wagon	You should be able to. I am actually looking to buy a ZR20 again also. They were just so handy, and if you don't mind not having a memory stick, its the way to go. Should be able to get the whole get (and maybe a flash) easily for 200$. Yea, I don't think any cams are using USB 2.0 yet. Hopefully soon. I notice when I d/l the pics and vids of my memory card, it takes forever using USB 1.1 and the quality isn't that good. But if I take pics using the DV tape, you have to then use a video editor (i.e. Adobe Premier) in order to extract the pics, but they are 10 times better in quality. So if you are looking at te ZR20, then I hope you don't take to many stills. You then have to crop them off the DV tape. (Pain in the ass). 1394 cards are getting pretty cheap. I saw one for 25$ at Best buy not to long ago. This includes a cable with it. __________________ Captain Murphy: I dub thee Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, beater of ass. Be a hitter, babe.

2003-05-01, 08:44 AM	#9
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	I do have a newer SB card, so I probably have a firewire port then, I didn't know it was AKA IEEE-1394. I'd love to get something to take in-car footage with, but like Scott said it can't cost too much. I want to be able to hook it up to the TV to watch at home but also to the computer so I could post vid clips. __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

2003-05-01, 09:04 AM	#10
ArthurS EJ207 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 3,707 Car: 2011 Chevy Battle Wagon	I would suggest then to really look for a ZR20. Its a few-year old model without a memory stick, but damn it still shoots really nice videos. I should post some of the videos I made with You can hook it directly to the VCR also and play from the Recorder. Here are some good deals: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=20330 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=20330 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=20330 And here is some reviews: http://www.gearpreview.com/film/minidv/zr20.html http://electronics.cnet.com/electron...4-7657803.html I also just noticed that some of the pics look differnet. There might be different sub-models of the ZR20. __________________ Captain Murphy: I dub thee Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, beater of ass. Be a hitter, babe.

2003-05-01, 09:27 AM	#11
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	Do zr20's have a threaded port on the bottom where you could screw it onto a tripod? That would make it relatively easy to fabricate a mounting bracket for it to go in the car. __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

2003-05-01, 09:28 AM	#12
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	Yeah, I was just thinking the ZR20 looks like a good affordable camera... I just hate ebay... I never find what I'm looking for and I can't bring myself to trust to tools on there that are selling stuff. Can you buy a new ZR20 anywhere? __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2003-05-01, 09:46 AM	#16
ArthurS EJ207 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 3,707 Car: 2011 Chevy Battle Wagon	To buy a new ZR20 is abour 350.00$ + Thats why Ebay can be good. Just bid on people with high-feedback and you should be fine. And yes you can screw them onto a tripod. I had one for mine. __________________ Captain Murphy: I dub thee Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, beater of ass. Be a hitter, babe.

2003-05-01, 09:47 AM	#17
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	Hey Scott if you can find one of these zr20's cheap that could be our wedding present. __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

2003-05-01, 09:50 AM	#19
ArthurS EJ207 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 3,707 Car: 2011 Chevy Battle Wagon	If you find one thats new for about 300$ that is a awsome deal. I paid 700$ for my ZR20 about a year and a half ago. I bought mine through Dell.com. Here is a list of Dell's deals on DV Camcorders: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...ategory_id=578 Some good deals including this panasonic (Butt-ass ugly) DV Cam: http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/ProductDe... __________________ Captain Murphy: I dub thee Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, beater of ass. Be a hitter, babe.

2003-05-01, 09:54 AM	#20
ArthurS EJ207 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 3,707 Car: 2011 Chevy Battle Wagon	Looks like Canon's new version of the ZR20 is the ZR60. This DV cam has no memoery stick either, but sells for 500$ new! It has better Zoom and a few more neat little features. __________________ Captain Murphy: I dub thee Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, beater of ass. Be a hitter, babe.

2003-05-01, 10:51 AM	#22
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	Yeah, my passenger seat bounces when no one's in it, but I could just latch the passenger harness and tighten down the straps around it and that would probably hold it still. I'd have to fab a different kind of mount for mine since my seats just have one slot-shaped post in the middle for the headrests. __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

2003-05-01, 12:44 PM	#23
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	added pics above ^^^ __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2003-05-01, 12:52 PM	#24
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	Ok I'm all fired up about having in-car video now... you totally need to get us a DV cam as a wedding present! __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

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