Close face helmets *illegal* in airbag equipped cars?

[sperry]

From the SCCA mailing list:

Participant Bulletin
DATE: November 16, 2004
FROM: National Staff
TO: All Participants
SUBJECT: Airbag Advisory

It has been brought to the attention of SCCA Technical Services that the use
of full-face or closed-face helmets while driving vehicles with active airbag
restraint systems may result in injuries in the event of a crash that deploys
the airbag. Because of the location of the steering wheel relative to a
driver's position, the airbag axis is on a level with the drivers chin. In a
crash with airbag deployment, contact with the chin area of a full-face
helmet can be so powerful “that the risk of fractures to the jaw cannot be
ruled out“ (Hubert Gramling, FIA Institute, FT3/AF, 18.5.1999). This applies
to vehicle that may be used in Solo, RallyCross, High Performance Car
Control Clinics, etc.

Therefore, it is highly recommended that full-face helmets not be used in
vehicles with functional airbag systems. Potentially more restrictive language
is currently being considered for 2005, which could appear in an early 2005
issue of FasTrack. If you have any questions, please contact the SCCA at
(800) 770-2055.

I was thinking about getting an open face helmet just for coping with summer heat... but this may be a better reason. It may also be a good reason to tear out that steering wheel for a racing one, as well as add the roll cage, aluminum shell, and 5pt harness.

[Dean]

You beat me to it... I was going to post this...

[dknv]

I wonder what happened to cause the scca to issue this bulletin?

[dknv]

In a thinly-related note, scca.com has a news story that rulebooks will be online in 2005. Still have to buy one if you want to go to national events. I'm sure same will apply for those who want annual tech.

[Kevin M]

Would pulling the airbag fuses suffice?

Actually, I was thinking I need an SA2000 helmet anyway for all the track time I'm planning on getting this year... anybody want to hazard a guess as to how much a good condition closed face M2000 helmet is worth?

[dknv]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Would pulling the airbag fuses suffice?

Actually, I was thinking I need an SA2000 helmet anyway for all the track time I'm planning on getting this year... anybody want to hazard a guess as to how much a good condition closed face M2000 helmet is worth?

What do you mean, worth if you sell yours?
My guess w/b scca tech would not support disabling a safety feature. It seems like I remember something somewhere about being able to disable abs though. Maybe that's street-prepared.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by dknv

What do you mean, worth if you sell yours?
My guess w/b scca tech would not support disabling a safety feature. It seems like I remember something somewhere about being able to disable abs though. Maybe that's street-prepared.

Yeah, I might as well sell it. I might even break even on it, I got it real cheap on clearance at racerwholesale.com, and i haven't seen them that cheap since.

ABS can be disabled in any class, and I think the non-street tireable classes actually encourage removal of airbags, but I'm not positive.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Yeah, I might as well sell it. I might even break even on it, I got it real cheap on clearance at racerwholesale.com, and i haven't seen them that cheap since.

ABS can be disabled in any class, and I think the non-street tireable classes actually encourage removal of airbags, but I'm not positive.

Airbag removal is usually encouraged for cars w/ cages and harnesses since the bags are designed to be used in conjunction with stock seatbelts and crumple zones.

[Dean]

Don't go dumping those full face helmets so quickly...

Unless there is substantially more data than the one report they site, this is just plain bad science in my opinion...

The one study referenced is for Formula 1 cars, not passenger cars, and more importantly makes no reffernce to Open Face helmets at all.

See attached below...
____________________________

From: Mark Andy
To: Evolution Discussion ; autox mailing list
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 8:31 AM
Subject: [evolution-disc.] Re: Potential new helmet rule would affect autocrossers

Howdy,

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Rocky Entriken wrote:
> I really do not believe we can prevent this -- "safety" issues always
> seem impervious to any objections -- but we might get it imposed in a more
> user-friendly manner (if a new helmet you must buy, would you not rather be
> able to get a Snell 2005 than a Snell 2000 that already has 4 years of its
> rulebook life gone?)

Go read the report before you happily kowtow to the company line.

That said, I don't know where you can (properly) get a copy of the report.
The one I have (which I will not redistribute since I don't know if that
violates copyright or whatever and the paper itself doesn't say) which has
the title "Hubert Gramling, FT3/AF, 18.5.1999 is a study focused on
comparing airbags and the HANS device in formula one cars. While the
study does mention (in a passing manner) that the airbag hitting the chin
area can cause damage, they make no mention whatsoever of that chance of
damage being lessened by an open face helmet and don't appear to have
tested that configuration. Nor do they appear to have tested using airbag
geometry common to passenger cars, vs. F1 cars.

In short, basing a safety decision related to passenger airbags and full
face vs. open face helmets on this particular study would appear to be
complete folly to me as the study is answering very different questions.

And if you think its "good enough" and can be extrapolated to cover the
situation, I beg to differ. In the paper, they talk about spacing the
airbag another 50mm (~2") closer to the dummy and have what appear to be
significant differences in performance. I'd submit that if 2" makes such
a difference, certainly the different body position in a passenger car vs.
a formula one car would make a difference.

Not to mention that THEY DON'T TEST THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AIRBAG IMPACT
WITH AN OPEN FACE HELMET VS. A CLOSED FACE HELMET!

I sincerely hope that Tech Services or whoever issued this bulletin has
other supporting information.

Mark

[doubleurx]

How about just disconnecting the air bag plug under the driver's seat for the events. It is really not that tough once you figure out how the clip works.

I'd hate to say I bought my new helmet for one race event and one transmission!

[sperry]

Originally Posted by doubleurx

How about just disconnecting the air bag plug under the driver's seat for the events. It is really not that tough once you figure out how the clip works.

I'd hate to say I bought my new helmet for one race event and one transmission!

Disconnecting the airbag plug under the seat would disable the driver's seat *side* airbag. The bag in the wheel is connected throught the steering column to the brains bolted to the chassis deep under the dash.

I'm not saying that I agree w/ the SCCA post. Plus, it's just a "recomendation" and not a FasTrak rule change or anything. Frankly, I can't see how hitting an airbag with your chin, or with your chin inside a helmet is much different. However, I'm planning on getting an open ace helmet for autocross, simply for comfort sake. In 99.99999% of the cases a helmet is probably unnecessary in auto-x anyway.

As far as Track and Solo1/Trials, I'm planning on a rollcage, race shell, and 5 or 6 pt harness. In which case, I will be removing my airbags entirely, and relying on "hard" restraints, and most definately a full-face helmet.

[dknv]

Boy, there is alot of noise on this topic across other race forums as well.
I guess in stock class you are not allowed to pull the fuse. And in some cars, if you pull the fuse, you need to make a trip to your dealership's service department to reset an error code. I don't want that bad dream like Matt's , so I don't think I would want to do this. Then there is the risk that you will forget to plug it back in when you are done.

The report is from 1999 -- and based on implementation of airbags in F1 cars. But, reading between the lines, I think there has also been some experience of this happening within an scca venue, but I haven't found a specific example yet.

What I would like to see is a dummy-simulation of an airbag hitting a full-face helmeted head. I'm wondering if the impact point towards the bottom of the helmet smashes the chinstrap harder into your jaw; or if the impact causes your face to smash back into the chinbar. ??

[sperry]

Originally Posted by dknv

What I would like to see is a dummy-simulation of an airbag hitting a full-face helmeted head. I'm wondering if the impact point towards the bottom of the helmet smashes the chinstrap harder into your jaw; or if the impact causes your face to smash back into the chinbar. ??

I'd be very surprised if there is any difference at even high auto-x speeds. Perhaps a bag that's designed to deploy to save a race driver in a 200mph impact would be a bit more dangerous, but I'm going to have to agree w/ everyone that's making the apples/oranges argument. F1 research in this case is not applicable enough to make a rule change.

Besides, if your helmet is so loose that the airbag can exert a focused force on your jaw via the helmet, you've got fitment issues that are greater than your airbag issues.