And the debate still goes on (4G63 vs. EJ / Forged vs. Cast) - Subaru Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras

BOO · 2005-01-09, 06:07 AM

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85035

BOO · 2005-01-09, 06:09 AM

I still think that a magazine co. that takes a perfectly good car and spray paints it black is B.S. and I will never buy the Magazine again, They "sport compact" have something against the STi, and so does "car and driver". They are getting a little something under the table.

^ -----> That just cracks me up though ... lol

Libila · 2005-01-09, 11:12 AM

I don't understand why they can't believe that the EVO out ran the STi. I also don't understand why they say that SCC is bias. They loved their WRX, and STi (they would know if they read the magazine). However, they got to test the Evo VIII, and they started to talk about it more. Then, SCC was lucky enough to get a MR for one of their long term project cars. That is part of the reason I want to work for them

Kevin M · 2005-01-09, 01:07 PM

A big part of why they like the Evo better is the fact that they did some stupid ass mods to the STi at first, liek the Praxis suspension. The liked it a lot better with the coilovers installed. The Evo is a better track car, by a small margin, but I would still take the STi as a street car, even over the MR.

Libila · 2005-01-09, 04:36 PM

I totally agree about the crappy modifications, and about the Evo being a better track car. But those guys don't care about a comfortable all around car. If it's streetable, but more of a race car, then it can be a daily driver (according to SCC).

MattR · 2005-01-09, 05:31 PM

If I wanted a car just for racing, tracking, autocross and occasional street use...I would probably have considered an EVO, After driving Marissa'a car so many times, I really like how they perform, but could not be happy in one for daily driving...

The MR is on a level of its own right now, IMO.

MikeSTI · 2005-01-10, 10:31 AM

I still like my STi

It would have been nice if they added the forged internals :?

Kevin M · 2005-01-10, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

I still like my STi

It would have been nice if they added the forged internals :?

Unnecessary. Stock block is good for 330 at the wheels. Probably more.

MikeSTI · 2005-01-10, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

I still like my STi

It would have been nice if they added the forged internals :?

Unnecessary. Stock block is good for 330 at the wheels. Probably more.

but I want 400

Kevin M · 2005-01-10, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

I still like my STi

It would have been nice if they added the forged internals :?

Unnecessary. Stock block is good for 330 at the wheels. Probably more.

but I want 400

You probably need an EJ22 then, so who cares what the EJ257 has in it.

MikeSTI · 2005-01-10, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

I still like my STi

It would have been nice if they added the forged internals :?

Unnecessary. Stock block is good for 330 at the wheels. Probably more.

but I want 400

You probably need an EJ22 then, so who cares what the EJ257 has in it.

you must not have got the point

if the EJ257 came with forged pistons I would already have the motor I needed :shock:

Evo Mike · 2005-01-10, 12:48 PM

yes indeed the interior of the baseline evo is a bit crappy, even the MR didn't get the JDM (GSR) seats that many people would have liked. But if i were to put up an STi vs. the Evo with the leather package.. i'd have to take the evo. The leather interior (seats door pannels etc) does wonders for the car (or so i feel). maybe it's because i like leather. Although it still has the ugly crappy gauge cluster and the somewhat questionable dash, what car is perfect? and i guess they had to go cheap somewhere in order to include a sunroof!
IMO the 2005 STi's dash isn't the next best decision subie has ever made.. but i guess the Defi instrument cluster makes up for it..

please note i'm not looking at any performance specs, just the driver comfortability

qksubi · 2005-01-10, 10:54 PM

Well since I ve had both cars

the EVO in my opinion is a better handling car out of the box but flat out performance can not match by the STi

I have had my car a Year and still cant get enough of that pull third gear seems to be endless some times and at freeway speeds from 6th to 5th it kills about 85% of auto market thats why I love my car! But I would KILL to have that stering rack! man!!

Kevin M · 2005-01-11, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qksubi

But I would KILL to have that stering rack! man!!

I'm looking into options. Looks like it can be drastically improved for about $650. Details as they are made public. It would put you into SM though.

BOO · 2005-01-11, 07:59 AM

Whats funny is that even though the cars are soo close NOW in performance(300 hp-2.5L STi vs. ONLY 276HP-2.0L EVO) that if the U.S. market had in fact given into the 2.0 STi of the other markets.. The battle would have been that much more interesting

..

Kevin M · 2005-01-11, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOO

Whats funny is that even though the cars are soo close NOW in performance(300 hp-2.5L STi vs. ONLY 276HP-2.0L EVO) that if the U.S. market had in fact given into the 2.0 STi of the other markets.. The battle would have been that much more interesting

..

The US STi couldn't run on the EJ207 because of emissions requirements and low fuel grade. It just can't be done.

BOO · 2005-01-11, 08:33 AM

Right, I knew this .. It's just sad ....

MikeSTI · 2005-01-11, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

The US STi couldn't run on the EJ207 because of emissions requirements and low fuel grade. It just can't be done.

and thats way the Evo 8 & MR are having such problems

I would bet Subaru could have done it, just didnt want to spend the money to make it happen..........

Kevin M · 2005-01-11, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

The US STi couldn't run on the EJ207 because of emissions requirements and low fuel grade. It just can't be done.

and thats way the Evo 8 & MR are having such problems

I would bet Subaru could have done it, just didnt want to spend the money to make it happen..........

The 4G63 is as different from the EJ20 as two turbo motors with similar displacement can be. Apples and Oranges. no amount of R&D can make up for the fact that 91 octane gas licks balls and there are very strange EPA drive cycle emissions requirements that we the public know almost nothing about. The 4G63 is not knock limited on 91 as much as an EJ20 is, hence the 276hp Evo.

MikeSTI · 2005-01-11, 10:11 AM

forged vs. cast
19 psi vs. 14.5

nuff said

not everything is apples to oranges, dont believe the hype

Kevin M · 2005-01-11, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

forged vs. cast
19 psi vs. 14.5

nuff said

not everything is apples to oranges, dont believe the hype

Sorry Mike, that's not correct.

sperry · 2005-01-11, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

forged vs. cast
19 psi vs. 14.5

nuff said

not everything is apples to oranges, dont believe the hype

Um...

Inline transversely mounted vs. Boxer longitudinally mounted

You pretty much can't make two 4 banger motors any different. If you put forged internals and 19psi in a 2.0 Subaru motor, you surely could make the same power as the 2.5L STi motor (and probably more) but like Kevin said you'd *never* pass CA emissions.

There's a reason why the JDM Spec-C is still the better car than the US STi, and it's the same reason why we don't have it in the US... it's basically powered by a race motor!

Kevin M · 2005-01-11, 10:20 AM

Actually, I'd take an EJ257 over an EJ207, in the JDM Spec C V7 chassis package. Remember, the EJ257 is saddled with all the same emissions restrictions as the EJ205- and matches the power output of the JDM EJ207 which runs on our ~94 octane gas.

AtomicLabMonkey · 2005-01-11, 10:36 AM

You people have too many letter and number code names for your cars... this is like trying to read a govt. document.

Kevin M · 2005-01-11, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

You people have too many letter and number code names for your cars... this is like trying to read a govt. document.

Maybe I'll write a quick Import Engine Decoder Ring for you later.

2005-01-09, 06:07 AM	#1
BOO EJ205 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, Nevada Posts: 2,076 Car: 12+tires Class: Spec. without hard work, nothing grows but weeds	And the debate still goes on (4G63 vs. EJ / Forged vs. Cast) http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85035 __________________ LOL.. The other White Meat ... lol ------------------------------------------------ subaru(STi) is a boys car, mitsubishi(evo) is a man's car - Jeremy (Top Gear) GC,GD,GM

2005-01-09, 06:09 AM	#2
BOO EJ205 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, Nevada Posts: 2,076 Car: 12+tires Class: Spec. without hard work, nothing grows but weeds	I still think that a magazine co. that takes a perfectly good car and spray paints it black is B.S. and I will never buy the Magazine again, They "sport compact" have something against the STi, and so does "car and driver". They are getting a little something under the table. ^ -----> That just cracks me up though ... lol __________________ LOL.. The other White Meat ... lol ------------------------------------------------ subaru(STi) is a boys car, mitsubishi(evo) is a man's car - Jeremy (Top Gear) GC,GD,GM

2005-01-09, 01:07 PM	#4
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	A big part of why they like the Evo better is the fact that they did some stupid ass mods to the STi at first, liek the Praxis suspension. The liked it a lot better with the coilovers installed. The Evo is a better track car, by a small margin, but I would still take the STi as a street car, even over the MR. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2005-01-09, 05:31 PM	#6
MattR El Matador Real Name: Matt Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 10,660 Car: 2012 Toyota Tacoma Class: ?	If I wanted a car just for racing, tracking, autocross and occasional street use...I would probably have considered an EVO, After driving Marissa'a car so many times, I really like how they perform, but could not be happy in one for daily driving... The MR is on a level of its own right now, IMO. __________________ "Dallas..We have a problem.”

2005-01-10, 10:31 AM	#7
MikeSTI EJ205 Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 2,354 Car: 2004 STi Class: TSM I can't complain	I still like my STi It would have been nice if they added the forged internals :? __________________ Cobb Stage 2

2005-01-09, 11:12 AM	#3
Libila EJ205 Real Name: Tim Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 1,384 Car: '94 L	I don't understand why they can't believe that the EVO out ran the STi. I also don't understand why they say that SCC is bias. They loved their WRX, and STi (they would know if they read the magazine). However, they got to test the Evo VIII, and they started to talk about it more. Then, SCC was lucky enough to get a MR for one of their long term project cars. That is part of the reason I want to work for them

2005-01-09, 04:36 PM	#5
Libila EJ205 Real Name: Tim Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 1,384 Car: '94 L	I totally agree about the crappy modifications, and about the Evo being a better track car. But those guys don't care about a comfortable all around car. If it's streetable, but more of a race car, then it can be a daily driver (according to SCC).

2005-01-10, 12:48 PM	#12
Evo Mike EJ251 Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 513	yes indeed the interior of the baseline evo is a bit crappy, even the MR didn't get the JDM (GSR) seats that many people would have liked. But if i were to put up an STi vs. the Evo with the leather package.. i'd have to take the evo. The leather interior (seats door pannels etc) does wonders for the car (or so i feel). maybe it's because i like leather. Although it still has the ugly crappy gauge cluster and the somewhat questionable dash, what car is perfect? and i guess they had to go cheap somewhere in order to include a sunroof! IMO the 2005 STi's dash isn't the next best decision subie has ever made.. but i guess the Defi instrument cluster makes up for it.. please note i'm not looking at any performance specs, just the driver comfortability __________________ I Can't Believe My Friends.... Drive WRX's....

2005-01-10, 10:54 PM	#13
qksubi Assault Mechanic Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Reno Posts: 996 Car: 13 Sti Hatch Satin white Class: TBSP/TT-2 Aim for the EYES!	Well since I ve had both cars the EVO in my opinion is a better handling car out of the box but flat out performance can not match by the STi I have had my car a Year and still cant get enough of that pull third gear seems to be endless some times and at freeway speeds from 6th to 5th it kills about 85% of auto market thats why I love my car! But I would KILL to have that stering rack! man!!

2005-01-11, 07:59 AM	#15
BOO EJ205 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, Nevada Posts: 2,076 Car: 12+tires Class: Spec. without hard work, nothing grows but weeds	Whats funny is that even though the cars are soo close NOW in performance(300 hp-2.5L STi vs. ONLY 276HP-2.0L EVO) that if the U.S. market had in fact given into the 2.0 STi of the other markets.. The battle would have been that much more interesting .. __________________ LOL.. The other White Meat ... lol ------------------------------------------------ subaru(STi) is a boys car, mitsubishi(evo) is a man's car - Jeremy (Top Gear) GC,GD,GM

2005-01-11, 08:33 AM	#17
BOO EJ205 Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, Nevada Posts: 2,076 Car: 12+tires Class: Spec. without hard work, nothing grows but weeds	Right, I knew this .. It's just sad .... __________________ LOL.. The other White Meat ... lol ------------------------------------------------ subaru(STi) is a boys car, mitsubishi(evo) is a man's car - Jeremy (Top Gear) GC,GD,GM

2005-01-11, 10:11 AM	#20
MikeSTI EJ205 Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 2,354 Car: 2004 STi Class: TSM I can't complain	forged vs. cast 19 psi vs. 14.5 nuff said not everything is apples to oranges, dont believe the hype __________________ Cobb Stage 2

2005-01-11, 10:20 AM	#23
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	Actually, I'd take an EJ257 over an EJ207, in the JDM Spec C V7 chassis package. Remember, the EJ257 is saddled with all the same emissions restrictions as the EJ205- and matches the power output of the JDM EJ207 which runs on our ~94 octane gas. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2005-01-11, 10:36 AM	#24
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	You people have too many letter and number code names for your cars... this is like trying to read a govt. document. __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."