Ultimate Autocross Front Swaybar

[Dean]

I mentioned this in the 285/30-18 tire thread, so here it is. Sam is probably one of the few Motorsports shops specializing in Autocross equipment. He is also an Evolution instructor and national champion, so he knows his stuff...

I am seriously considering one of these so I can drop my spring rates a bit...

Originally Posted by Sam Strano: Strano Performance Parts

We are finally getting caught up on the early orders for our 32mm Hollow
bar for the front of the STi's and WRX's. I just had truck here with 9 of
them on board that are not spoken for. Price is $199 plus shipping. Note
that there will be a slight price increase soon due to the cost of steel.

Details about the bar:

--The bar is made of 32mm hollow material using 5mm walled tubing, weight
is 9 pounds.

--Mounts to stock body mounts using supplied brackets and urethane mount
buhsings. Slight bending of the u-brackets may be necessary on some
cars. This is easily accomplished

--Our bar does not use the Subaru OEM style endlinks, but rather an
L-bracket the mounts to the lower control arm.

Q: Why did we decide on a such a large front bar? Wouldn't that make
understeer worse on a nose-heavy car?
A: We chose this course of action for a number of reasons, these are the
two largest: First is that the Subaru's have a terrible camber curve, all
you need to do is look at a typical front shot of a car in action and note
the positive camber on the front wheel. No matter how much static camber
you can get in, you lose it all to body roll. That in turn makes for a
very poor contact patch and a loss in front grip. Swaybars are much more
effective at controlling body roll than are springs, even BIG springs. We
felt that in order for the Subaru's to become truly fast that the best use
of the front tires had to be made. Secondly, we found the cars tended to
lift the inside rear tire right off the ground defeating a lot of the
advantage of the AWD. Again, a larger front bar works to counter this by
keeping the car more level, leaving the rear tire down on the ground more
often. The result is a car that has no more understeer than before, and
normally quite a bit less due to the better contact patch, as well as an
increased ability to accelerate off of corners. There are other reasons,
and if you'd like to talk those over, just contact me.

Is the bar proven? Yes it is. Joel Fehrman has worked on this with us
from the beginning. His car has the prototype bar on it, and has from the
beginning of year, including the two Atlanta National events where the car
dominated ESP and SM both. Later Tommy Pulliam won the Peru Tour by 2.1
over Joel in 2nd with ace driver Mark Jorgensen (who gives me all I can
handle) in 3rd.
Atlanta Tour results:
http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/Fil...tlanta-sun.pdf
Peru Tour results: http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/Fil...tlanta-sun.pdf
Toledo Tour results:
http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/Fil...toledo-sun.pdf
Atlanta Pro results: can't link them, SCCA's site won't let me.

Joel has posted pictures here, and you can also see opinions from others
who have gotten early versions of the bar. Please note the directions have
been cleaned up a
bit. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...5&page=4&pp=25


Sam Strano Jr.
Strano Performance Parts
Orders: 800-729-1831
Tech-line 814-849-3450
www.stranoparts.com

[Dean]

OK, Just talkked to them, and they have not fit one to an 02 yet. Anybody know if ther have been any front bar changes 02 - 05 WRX VS STI on the front bar, or are tehy all interchangable except the wagon?

[MikeSTI]

I havent seen any changes in front or rear bars as of yet.

tell him to send you one to test fit!!! Free shipping for your time

[sperry]

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

I havent seen any changes in front or rear bars as of yet.

tell him to send you one to test fit!!! Free shipping for your time

The rear bar has certainly changed between the '02 WRX and the '05 STi... but I don't remember if the front's changed as well.

[MikeSTI]

well you know what I meant!!!! lol yes the rear has changed (doh) atleat its clear by the different endlinks

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by Strano

No matter how much static camber
you can get in, you lose it all to body roll.

That statement is technically untrue.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

That statement is technically untrue.

Yes, but it is real world accurate for the most part on our cars. The Subaru front end geometry, like most strut based cars is terrible, but cheap to manufacture

[dayofpain]

fronts are completely different from 02-05 wrxs and ANY sti. sti 04's are different from 05's. the bar that stays the same on 04-05 sti's is the rear, and that one is also different from wrx's. the 05 front sway bar is different because of the stock antilift kit.

here is a thread from like a million years ago saying all the same stuff.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26301

the newest biggest whiteline bars are the 3003x and the 3006x. the latter being for the 05. they are 25-28mm adj. they barely fit through the body mounts with bushings in there. you cannot get these for the wrx. these are bars made only for the sti. sidenote, they are solid bars. which are alot stiffer than a hollow bar, 5mm thicker.

it is my understanding that once you change the way the front bars mount to the car, you get into an autox class that noone wants to be in. this is explained in the thread above.

i know jack shit about autox, just barfing up knowledge i have read places.

[dayofpain]

another thread on that sway bar in particular

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27091

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by Dean

Yes, but it is real world accurate for the most part on our cars. The Subaru front end geometry, like most strut based cars is terrible, but cheap to manufacture

Hey, it's better than a Mustang. At least the LCA axis doesn't start out angled down towards the chassis (from my understanding at least). If you want better camber gain you can always relocate the inner pivots...

[Dean]

Originally Posted by dayofpain

fronts are completely different from 02-05 wrxs and ANY sti. sti 04's are different from 05's. the bar that stays the same on 04-05 sti's is the rear, and that one is also different from wrx's. the 05 front sway bar is different because of the stock antilift kit..

Hmmm OK, I sent more emails.

I didn't do the math for stiffnes, but I think a 32mm (5mm wall) hollow bar should be stiffer and should weigh about half what the 28mm solid does.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Hey, it's better than a Mustang. At least the LCA axis doesn't start out angled down towards the chassis (from my understanding at least). If you want better camber gain you can always relocate the inner pivots...

Yeah. I'd like to move the lower pivots up about 6 inches so under cornering, camber becomes more negative all the way to the bump stops. but wait, this screws up camber under braking as well. So back to stiffer springs to compensate...

What we really need is the 4 bolt drop in double wishbone with 1-4 degrees adjustable static camber, and 4-8 degrees adjustable castor, no bump steer, etc... Oh, adn priced onder $200 and legal in all Autocross classes.

[dayofpain]

the math,....

http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bul...%20Swaybar.pdf

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by Dean

Yeah. I'd like to move the lower pivots up about 6 inches so under cornering, camber becomes more negative all the way to the bump stops.

6 inches!?! I can tell you right now without even plotting the suspension pivots that 6in. is an extreme change you wouldn't ever want. Gotta remember that the LCA angle affects the roll center height, jacking forces, lateral scrub, etc. etc...

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

6 inches!?! I can tell you right now without even plotting the suspension pivots that 6in. is an extreme change you wouldn't ever want. Gotta remember that the LCA angle affects the roll center height, jacking forces, lateral scrub, etc. etc...

Dude, 6 inches is just about right:

[AtomicLabMonkey]

I forgot to qualify that with "unless you're hittin switches..."

[Dean]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

6 inches!?! I can tell you right now without even plotting the suspension pivots that 6in. is an extreme change you wouldn't ever want. Gotta remember that the LCA angle affects the roll center height, jacking forces, lateral scrub, etc. etc...

I was kidding about the 6"s, but not about the bolt in double wishbone.

Oh, and I did the math on the weight of the 28mm solid vs. 32mm hollow, and it is about 1/2 the weight. I don't have the energy to run the torque numbers, but am pretty sure the 32 hollow is stiffer. And as long as it is mandrel bent, lighter is better IMHO.

[dayofpain]

no arguement here about being lighter is better, im all for loosing that skinny bitch under the hood. but im pretty sure in that thread is says that to offer a hollow bar with the same torque, it would need to be 35mm.

also im pretty sure it says you change the mounts you change your class in autox. he says that the class he runs in allow open front bar.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by dayofpain

no arguement here about being lighter is better, im all for loosing that skinny bitch under the hood. but im pretty sure in that thread is says that to offer a hollow bar with the same torque, it would need to be 35mm.

also im pretty sure it says you change the mounts you change your class in autox. he says that the class he runs in allow open front bar.

I believe that all classes outside of Stock will allow new mounts. And even Stock allows a new front (but not rear) swaybar... just not sure about attachment points.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by dayofpain

no arguement here about being lighter is better, im all for loosing that skinny bitch under the hood. but im pretty sure in that thread is says that to offer a hollow bar with the same torque, it would need to be 35mm.

also im pretty sure it says you change the mounts you change your class in autox. he says that the class he runs in allow open front bar.

From what I read, he is talking about much thinne wall tubing than 5mm. 5mm tubing is really thick. Swaybar mounting is not an issue as long as you use the stock holes.

[dayofpain]

sweet, if it clears all that, and is stronger, man you guys are stoked