Need suspension upgrade advice - Subaru Enthusiasts Car Club of the Sierras

M3n2c3 · 2005-10-09, 11:49 AM

Ok, so I've spent countless hours scouring "teh intarweb" for possible suspension setups for my '05 RS. I've browsed all of the reputable online retailers and searched SECCS, RS25, and NASIOC. Here's what I've come up with in the way of options, and I have a few final questions for you experienced folk.

To start, here are my major stipulations: First off, I'm more concerned about ride height adjustability than damping adjustmet. Both would be nice, but the former is my "must have" so I can crank my height back up to stock-level in the winter snow. I also want to maintain a decent ride comfort, but I expect to encounter a bit of harshness. The furthest I really expect to drive is Derby field for auto-x or San Fran perhaps twice a year, so long trips aren't really an issue. Finally, I'm obviously doing this for reduced body roll and better cornering performance, with an added bonus being the visual improvement a height drop would provide. In all, my key focus is a balance between comfort, performance, and adjustability, without spending way too much.

Option 1: Ground Control coil-over sleeve kit (with Eibach springs) on KYB GR2 Struts. About $700. This will give me ride-height adjustment, no damping adjustment. Pretty much my basic option.

Option 2: Ground Control coil-over sleeve kit on KYB AGX struts. About $900. Same ride-height adjustment with the Ground Controls, but the shocks give me a damping adjustment option for compression and rebound (combined).

Option 3: JIC SF-1 Coil-overs. About $1500. These are entry-level coil-overs, with adjustable ride height, but no damping adjustment. They include camber-adjustable front top mounts. This is really something I'll only consider if someone can give me a damn good reason I should spend an extra $600 over Option 2 just to lose my damping adjustment.

Option 4: TEIN Flex Type coil-overs. About $1600. Added on Scott's recommendation. Separate height and pre-load adjustment, and combined compression/rebound adjustment. Camber-adjustable top mounts. EDFC compatible in case I ever feel the need to be able to adjust my damping from the driver's seat.

I need feedback from anyone willing to share it, before I go and drop a grand or more on this. I'd greatly appreciate any alternative options or suggestions, advice on possible compatibility conflicts that I may not be aware of, and opinions on what will give the best bang/buck ratio on a daily driver that will see semi-frequent autocross/track days. Feel free to warn me of any other parts, options, or costs I may need to consider for proper installation, as well.

sperry · 2005-10-09, 12:53 PM

Tein Flex. Period.

They're the best compromise between streetability and performance, they're fully adjustable, and the height is adjustable independent of the spring pre-load, so they'll be easy to raise up in the winter. They've got 16 step rebound adjustment, camber plates w/ pillow ball top mounts. Plus they're like $1400 IIRC, so they're cheaper than those JICs you're looking at.

A lot of folks here on SECCS have the Tein Flex's.

M3n2c3 · 2005-10-09, 01:25 PM

I was looking at those as well, but I saw them listed at about $100 more than the JICs. For an extra $100, though, the added adjustability is definitely worth considering. I'll stick those in as #4.

Do you think in my case that full coil-overs be enough of an improved investment over a set of Ground Controls and KYB AGX to really make them worth the exta money? $900 is an easy decision. Spending almost twice that for options that I may or may not get the opportunity to take advantage of is not such a simple decision.

Dean · 2005-10-09, 02:39 PM

Tein is good stuff. Just remember every time you change ride height, you get to reallign the car.

Also, due to the terrible suspension geometry on the Impreza(Assuming it hasn't really gotten much better in 05) once you get below about 14" wheel center to fender, you run into excessive positive dynamic camber under cornering, and braking.

This is bad! So bad that Competitive A Stock STI Autocross cars go to the absolute stiffest front sway bar available to minimize this affect despite what one would normally consider way overstiffening the front end. And that is at stock ride height!

The net is lowering an Impreza can actually hurt cornering, so if done for cornering reasons, it needs to be done carfuly in moderation.

M3n2c3 · 2005-10-09, 03:17 PM

Can you define "moderation" for me? I'm not going to slam the car. . .

And re-alignment is no biggie. Essentially I want to be able to run the car about 1.5" below stock (or so - depends on how it rides) for most of the year, and then raise it back up to stock for ground clearance when I have my winter wheels/tire set put back on. That'll require me to have it aligned anyway, so I'd do it all at once.

MattR · 2005-10-09, 03:21 PM

Tein Flex is the perfect setup for your needs.

Kevin M · 2005-10-09, 03:55 PM

Werd. Tein Flex, or the GC/AGX combo if you want to spend more time on your setup and less money.

M3n2c3 · 2005-10-09, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Werd. Tein Flex, or the GC/AGX combo if you want to spend more time on your setup and less money.

More time with installation, or more time with adjustment? Adjustment time is no big deal if I can get a acceptable similarity in performance for less money.

MikeK · 2005-10-09, 04:21 PM

Helix have released some new coilovers that look interesting:

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111200

2 versions, a race setup with 10/8 springs, $2300, and a street setup with 8/6 springs, $1000. Both come with camber plates up front.

M3n2c3 · 2005-10-09, 04:47 PM

Holy crap. I just fired an email out to Gruppe-s to get some more info and ordering details. At that introductory price, they may be just what I need!

ryan4601 · 2005-10-09, 06:29 PM

i dont know if they have those helix coil overs in quite yet...although im not positive...i think they just got in their test model for the shop...anyway i would definitly back the flex coil overs....not only are the easy to adjust in terms of both ride height and rebound...they can also be rebuilt fairly easily in the united states. i have had no problems with mine and i have been drving on them every day for the last 2+years(22000 miles)....
ryan

doubleurx · 2005-10-09, 06:58 PM

I have the tein flex and am very happy! although that could be just the beer on tap...........not really sure?

M3n2c3 · 2005-10-09, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan4601

i dont know if they have those helix coil overs in quite yet...although im not positive...i think they just got in their test model for the shop...anyway i would definitly back the flex coil overs....not only are the easy to adjust in terms of both ride height and rebound...they can also be rebuilt fairly easily in the united states. i have had no problems with mine and i have been drving on them every day for the last 2+years(22000 miles)....
ryan

According to that thread Mike linked to, Gruppe-s has been stress-testing the Helix set for a while now, and the feature set is pretty much the same as the Tein Flex. They're supposedly being released this week at an "introductory" cost of $999 shipped.

I think I gotta give them a shot. For a grand I'll be a guinea pig if the set has a chance of giving me the performance they're advertising.

Dean · 2005-10-09, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3n2c3

Can you define "moderation" for me? I'm not going to slam the car. . .

Go measure from the center of your wheel plumb to the fender lip. Right in the neighborhood of 14" is the minimum before hard cornering starts to cause lots of positive camber.

Here are the DMS reccomendations:

http://seccs.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3283

Kevin M · 2005-10-10, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3n2c3

More time with installation, or more time with adjustment? Adjustment time is no big deal if I can get a acceptable similarity in performance for less money.

A little more on installation, potentially significantly more on adjustment. When you install Teins, the instructions say "set ride height to 'X' using this measurement method" and it will be pretty damn good at that height. Tinkering is inevitable of course, but you wouldn't have anything negative to say about the height they recommend. With GCs, you can't pre-set the ride height off the car as easily (meaning, you can't easily estimate the settled ride height by eyeballing the assembled strut before installing it). And since you're using a somewhat unique spring rate/strut damping combo, you have to do more fiddling to make that work. But, you can get it dialed in and set properly yourself. Just takes more thought and effort is all.

M3n2c3 · 2005-10-10, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean

Go measure from the center of your wheel plumb to the fender lip. Right in the neighborhood of 14" is the minimum before hard cornering starts to cause lots of positive camber.

I just ran out to the garage and took a rough measurement - 14" to the fender lip would actually give me a 2" drop from stock.

I should be ok with 1.5"-1.75". That chart will come in handy though, to be sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

A little more on installation, potentially significantly more on adjustment. When you install Teins, the instructions say "set ride height to 'X' using this measurement method" and it will be pretty damn good at that height. Tinkering is inevitable of course, but you wouldn't have anything negative to say about the height they recommend. With GCs, you can't pre-set the ride height off the car as easily (meaning, you can't easily estimate the settled ride height by eyeballing the assembled strut before installing it). And since you're using a somewhat unique spring rate/strut damping combo, you have to do more fiddling to make that work. But, you can get it dialed in and set properly yourself. Just takes more thought and effort is all.

That makes sense. Definitely something to take into consideration.

doubleurx · 2005-10-10, 08:27 AM

I originally had my teins set to the recommended height which I though was way too low. I raised it about 3/4" from that and the car handled much better.

ryan4601 · 2005-10-10, 11:05 AM

youll have to give me a test ride when you get those helix coil overs on. i only saw them when they were sitting on the shop floor. they looked pretty sweet and for 1000 bucks they are even sweeter.
ryan

M3n2c3 · 2005-10-13, 07:36 AM

I'm about to order those Helix DNA coilovers. Is there anything else I should pick up or know?

MikeK · 2005-10-13, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3n2c3

I'm about to order those Helix DNA coilovers. Is there anything else I should pick up or know?

You should know that modding your car is a slippery slope that will leave you poor and hungry

AtomicLabMonkey · 2005-10-13, 09:17 AM

It is indeed an addiction, and any sane person would run away from this moneypit of a hobby screaming as fast as they could.

M3n2c3 · 2005-10-13, 10:45 AM

All hobbies are moneypits. Some are just more expensive than others. . .

AtomicLabMonkey · 2005-10-13, 11:23 AM

Yeah, cars & racing just happen to be one of the most expensive there is short of aviation & spaceflight...

tysonK · 2005-10-13, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3n2c3

I'm about to order those Helix DNA coilovers. Is there anything else I should pick up or know?

Might as well pick up one of these...

http://www.crawfordperformance.com/p...nfo.cgi?id=145

M3n2c3 · 2005-10-13, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tysonK

Might as well pick up one of these...

http://www.crawfordperformance.com/p...nfo.cgi?id=145

I'll be sure to grab one of those next time I have 7k just lying around. . .

Well, the order's been placed - they should be here late next week.

And so it begins. . .

2005-10-09, 11:49 AM	#1
M3n2c3 EJ205 Real Name: Jeremiah Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dayton, NV Posts: 1,888 Car: 2005 Impreza 2.5RS, 2000 Forester L Class: RNP sometimes (see motto) "Kids are ruining autocross."	Need suspension upgrade advice Ok, so I've spent countless hours scouring "teh intarweb" for possible suspension setups for my '05 RS. I've browsed all of the reputable online retailers and searched SECCS, RS25, and NASIOC. Here's what I've come up with in the way of options, and I have a few final questions for you experienced folk. To start, here are my major stipulations: First off, I'm more concerned about ride height adjustability than damping adjustmet. Both would be nice, but the former is my "must have" so I can crank my height back up to stock-level in the winter snow. I also want to maintain a decent ride comfort, but I expect to encounter a bit of harshness. The furthest I really expect to drive is Derby field for auto-x or San Fran perhaps twice a year, so long trips aren't really an issue. Finally, I'm obviously doing this for reduced body roll and better cornering performance, with an added bonus being the visual improvement a height drop would provide. In all, my key focus is a balance between comfort, performance, and adjustability, without spending way too much. Option 1: Ground Control coil-over sleeve kit (with Eibach springs) on KYB GR2 Struts. About $700. This will give me ride-height adjustment, no damping adjustment. Pretty much my basic option. Option 2: Ground Control coil-over sleeve kit on KYB AGX struts. About $900. Same ride-height adjustment with the Ground Controls, but the shocks give me a damping adjustment option for compression and rebound (combined). Option 3: JIC SF-1 Coil-overs. About $1500. These are entry-level coil-overs, with adjustable ride height, but no damping adjustment. They include camber-adjustable front top mounts. This is really something I'll only consider if someone can give me a damn good reason I should spend an extra $600 over Option 2 just to lose my damping adjustment. Option 4: TEIN Flex Type coil-overs. About $1600. Added on Scott's recommendation. Separate height and pre-load adjustment, and combined compression/rebound adjustment. Camber-adjustable top mounts. EDFC compatible in case I ever feel the need to be able to adjust my damping from the driver's seat. I need feedback from anyone willing to share it, before I go and drop a grand or more on this. I'd greatly appreciate any alternative options or suggestions, advice on possible compatibility conflicts that I may not be aware of, and opinions on what will give the best bang/buck ratio on a daily driver that will see semi-frequent autocross/track days. Feel free to warn me of any other parts, options, or costs I may need to consider for proper installation, as well. __________________ Small red text that looks curious at first glance but is ultimately inconsequential Last edited by M3n2c3; 2005-10-09 at 01:31 PM.

2005-10-09, 12:53 PM	#2
sperry The Doink Real Name: Scott Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 20,335 Car: '09 OBXT, '02 WRX, '96 Miata Class: PDX/TT-6 The way out is through	Tein Flex. Period. They're the best compromise between streetability and performance, they're fully adjustable, and the height is adjustable independent of the spring pre-load, so they'll be easy to raise up in the winter. They've got 16 step rebound adjustment, camber plates w/ pillow ball top mounts. Plus they're like $1400 IIRC, so they're cheaper than those JICs you're looking at. A lot of folks here on SECCS have the Tein Flex's. __________________ Is you is, or is you ain't, my con-stit-u-ints?

2005-10-09, 01:25 PM	#3
M3n2c3 EJ205 Real Name: Jeremiah Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dayton, NV Posts: 1,888 Car: 2005 Impreza 2.5RS, 2000 Forester L Class: RNP sometimes (see motto) "Kids are ruining autocross."	I was looking at those as well, but I saw them listed at about $100 more than the JICs. For an extra $100, though, the added adjustability is definitely worth considering. I'll stick those in as #4. Do you think in my case that full coil-overs be enough of an improved investment over a set of Ground Controls and KYB AGX to really make them worth the exta money? $900 is an easy decision. Spending almost twice that for options that I may or may not get the opportunity to take advantage of is not such a simple decision. __________________ Small red text that looks curious at first glance but is ultimately inconsequential Last edited by M3n2c3; 2005-10-09 at 01:32 PM.

2005-10-09, 03:17 PM	#5
M3n2c3 EJ205 Real Name: Jeremiah Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dayton, NV Posts: 1,888 Car: 2005 Impreza 2.5RS, 2000 Forester L Class: RNP sometimes (see motto) "Kids are ruining autocross."	Can you define "moderation" for me? I'm not going to slam the car. . . And re-alignment is no biggie. Essentially I want to be able to run the car about 1.5" below stock (or so - depends on how it rides) for most of the year, and then raise it back up to stock for ground clearance when I have my winter wheels/tire set put back on. That'll require me to have it aligned anyway, so I'd do it all at once. __________________ Small red text that looks curious at first glance but is ultimately inconsequential Last edited by M3n2c3; 2005-10-09 at 03:22 PM.

2005-10-09, 03:21 PM	#6
MattR El Matador Real Name: Matt Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 10,660 Car: 2012 Toyota Tacoma Class: ?	Tein Flex is the perfect setup for your needs. __________________ "Dallas..We have a problem.”

2005-10-09, 02:39 PM	#4
Dean Señor Cheap Bastarde Real Name: Dean Join Date: May 2003 Location: $99 Tire Store Posts: 9,294 Car: $.04 STI Class: Fast,Cheap & Reliable=STI Deal, did somebody say Deal? Oh, Dean, yeah that's me.	Tein is good stuff. Just remember every time you change ride height, you get to reallign the car. Also, due to the terrible suspension geometry on the Impreza(Assuming it hasn't really gotten much better in 05) once you get below about 14" wheel center to fender, you run into excessive positive dynamic camber under cornering, and braking. This is bad! So bad that Competitive A Stock STI Autocross cars go to the absolute stiffest front sway bar available to minimize this affect despite what one would normally consider way overstiffening the front end. And that is at stock ride height! The net is lowering an Impreza can actually hurt cornering, so if done for cornering reasons, it needs to be done carfuly in moderation. __________________ I am a Commodore PET --- Now get off my lawn you kids...

2005-10-09, 03:55 PM	#7
Kevin M EJ22T Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Reno Posts: 9,445 Car: '93/'01 GF6, mostly red Class: 19 FP	Werd. Tein Flex, or the GC/AGX combo if you want to spend more time on your setup and less money. __________________ FWD is the new AWD

2005-10-09, 04:21 PM	#9
MikeK Captain Turbo Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Reno Posts: 3,318 Car: 05 STi	Helix have released some new coilovers that look interesting: http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111200 2 versions, a race setup with 10/8 springs, $2300, and a street setup with 8/6 springs, $1000. Both come with camber plates up front.

2005-10-09, 04:47 PM	#10
M3n2c3 EJ205 Real Name: Jeremiah Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dayton, NV Posts: 1,888 Car: 2005 Impreza 2.5RS, 2000 Forester L Class: RNP sometimes (see motto) "Kids are ruining autocross."	Holy crap. I just fired an email out to Gruppe-s to get some more info and ordering details. At that introductory price, they may be just what I need! __________________ Small red text that looks curious at first glance but is ultimately inconsequential

2005-10-09, 06:29 PM	#11
ryan4601 EJ22 Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 244 Car: 2004 wrx	i dont know if they have those helix coil overs in quite yet...although im not positive...i think they just got in their test model for the shop...anyway i would definitly back the flex coil overs....not only are the easy to adjust in terms of both ride height and rebound...they can also be rebuilt fairly easily in the united states. i have had no problems with mine and i have been drving on them every day for the last 2+years(22000 miles).... ryan

2005-10-09, 06:58 PM	#12
doubleurx EJ205 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Truckee Posts: 1,948	I have the tein flex and am very happy! although that could be just the beer on tap...........not really sure?

2005-10-10, 08:27 AM	#17
doubleurx EJ205 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Truckee Posts: 1,948	I originally had my teins set to the recommended height which I though was way too low. I raised it about 3/4" from that and the car handled much better.

2005-10-10, 11:05 AM	#18
ryan4601 EJ22 Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 244 Car: 2004 wrx	youll have to give me a test ride when you get those helix coil overs on. i only saw them when they were sitting on the shop floor. they looked pretty sweet and for 1000 bucks they are even sweeter. ryan

2005-10-13, 07:36 AM	#19
M3n2c3 EJ205 Real Name: Jeremiah Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dayton, NV Posts: 1,888 Car: 2005 Impreza 2.5RS, 2000 Forester L Class: RNP sometimes (see motto) "Kids are ruining autocross."	I'm about to order those Helix DNA coilovers. Is there anything else I should pick up or know? __________________ Small red text that looks curious at first glance but is ultimately inconsequential

2005-10-13, 09:17 AM	#21
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	It is indeed an addiction, and any sane person would run away from this moneypit of a hobby screaming as fast as they could. __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

2005-10-13, 10:45 AM	#22
M3n2c3 EJ205 Real Name: Jeremiah Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Dayton, NV Posts: 1,888 Car: 2005 Impreza 2.5RS, 2000 Forester L Class: RNP sometimes (see motto) "Kids are ruining autocross."	All hobbies are moneypits. Some are just more expensive than others. . . __________________ Small red text that looks curious at first glance but is ultimately inconsequential

2005-10-13, 11:23 AM	#23
AtomicLabMonkey Nightwalker Real Name: Austin Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oshkosh, WI Posts: 4,063 Car: '13 WRX YGBSM	Yeah, cars & racing just happen to be one of the most expensive there is short of aviation & spaceflight... __________________ "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you.. you're locked in here with me."

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