1993 Impreza

[A1337STI]

Does anyone happen to know if the 1.8L is a 4 valves per cylinder motor ?
Are all subaru motors 4 vales per cylinder ? (going back to say 1982 )

Is an AWD to FWD conversion possible ? tough ? expensive ? (a time and $$$ Guess would be great)

That 1993 Impreza i found on craigslist is still available , i was planning on buying it to enter in some CRS and RA events (California rally series / Rally america) after reading the rules a few times the only 2 classes RA allows novice drivers to compete in are group 2 (NA motors limited to 2.4L FWD - 2.0 L if you have 4 valves per cylinder) . and Production class which is limited to 2649 CC's of adjusted displacement. 4 valves per cylinder is a 1.2 modifier. AWD is a 1.3X modifier . so 1800 X 1.3 X 1.2 = 2808 Doh ! (doesn't appear you are allowed any motor mods, even if you reduce the size ) but you can can change from 1 model to an other, (like an AWD model to the FWD) though its probably best if i just find a FWD impreza then trying to change the drive train.

If only there was a 1.7 L AWD subaru out there.
i need to keep the costs down low so i'm shooting for a $500 car or less, so that when i roll/crash it i don't care that much.

an other thought was to buy a used group 2 / production car - my limited searching hasn't revealed anything in those 2 classes for less then 2k (cheapest i found was 7k )

[Dean]

Reasearch what is competitive and/or campaignable at reasonable cost, and buy one of those. FWD Subaru is probably not the answer.

[Kevin M]

Don't even think about building your first rally car from scratch out of a $500 beater. The cage alone will cost you more than just buying a used rally car from anybody. Don't stress over make and model, just pick one that doesn't need every single consumable part replaced, and preferably has at least 3 sets of wheels. Building your own rally car will make buying the STi look like a frugal economy car.

[sperry]

The 1st rule of building a rally car as a novice:

Do not build your own rally car, buy a used one.

You'll spend $500 on the car, then at least $10,000 and a year making it into a rally car, and it still won't be competative, even with Petter Solberg behind the wheel.

Here's a good writeup on what you're getting yourself into: http://linaracing.com/howmuch.cfm

For another reference, MattR and I were looking at picking up a *free* '83 GL Hatch for rallycross and decided it would be too expensive. You're looking at buying a '93 Impreza, converting the drivetrain, and full blown rallying it. Remember, a rally legal cage is about $6000 for a basic setup... not to mention the $2000 suspension (the minimum you can spend to get something that will last one stage), the seats, nav equipment, fire gear, wheels and tires, truck and trailer, etc. All that's stuff you *have* to have just to be able to be legal and finish the rally.

I hope you've got buckets of spare cash lying around... converting the car to FWD is gonna be the cheap part of the project.

/reality check

Okay, now that that's said, I believe all the way back to the 80's Subaru's flat motors have all been 4-valves per cylinder. I'm not sure what the rules are for the rally series, but you might be able to simply remove or weld the center diff and take off the rear driveshaft/axles/diff and drive it FWD.

[A1337STI]

Probably a great idea to just buy the cheapest , class eligable car, that doesn't need everything replaced. (loved the idea of driving an impreza but , does not look like it would work out well)

I've got a weilder who is gonna make me a roll cage for material costs [300-400], and my nav man allready agreed to buy his seat and safty harness . although it could still be very hard to have a car ready for less then 2K. i have heard a lot about baja bugs / bug kits/ old bugs being a cheap rebuild / repair . infact i had a buddy who rebuilt 1 bug and 2 karman gias , and i know he kept his costs way down.

My main goal is to have a lot of fun, and hopefully finish a stage im more concerned abou keeping costs down , then winning 1st.

[and yarr i've decided to keep my STI totally stock , love my warentee and waste money on something else]

[A1337STI]

You're probably right in that i'm not being realistic. I don't want to rally bad enough to sell my STI and spend it all on 1 car and walk to work though. and i definatly need to work @ 1 rally 1st and get a better picture of what is enovled. (they recomended that and buying a used rally car at the rally school i attended last weekend) however knowing a mechanic /weilder i was thinking i could save enough, that it would be cheaper to buy a car that is capable of driving 30 miles, and getting a cage built into it + other required safty items. as usual i'm probably wrong.

that said i really really want to give this a shot, unless i win the lotto or get a big raise in the future, this is a okay time in my life to give something a shot that will cost me a few K .

[sperry]

I'm filing this thread under "I'll believe it when I see it".

So far there's only 1 person here that's ever come through on a 'hair-brained' scheme... drfunk bought a 2.5RS bugeye instead of a WRX because he wanted a 2.5L turbo instead of a 2.0L turbo. He told us all "I'm gonna turbo this bitch and be as fast as a WRX for cheaper". And he did it with a lot of custom work and ingenuity. So far, he's the only one to pull it off of at least 5 or 6 threads like these.

Shawn still doesn't have his Sylvia put together.
Duckie's still waiting on his supercharger.
Kevin never swapped an STi drivetrain into his RS.
Matt and I never built that GL rally car.
Murphy has enough parts to build 2 RX-7's, but niether of them runs yet.
Tyson reverted to stock to buy something faster, but is still driving a stock WRX.

Shit happenes... threads like this are fun, but the odds are and history shows, people don't usually follow through on stuff like this.

[MPREZIV]

Oh yeah! Well, one day I'll do a turbo motor swap on MY RS!!!!!


just don't hold your breath or anything...

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by sperry

I'm filing this thread under "I'll believe it when I see it".

So far there's only 1 person here that's ever come through on a 'hair-brained' scheme... drfunk bought a 2.5RS bugeye instead of a WRX because he wanted a 2.5L turbo instead of a 2.0L turbo. He told us all "I'm gonna turbo this bitch and be as fast as a WRX for cheaper". And he did it with a lot of custom work and ingenuity. So far, he's the only one to pull it off of at least 5 or 6 threads like these.

Shawn still doesn't have his Sylvia put together.
Duckie's still waiting on his supercharger.
Kevin never swapped an STi drivetrain into his RS.
Matt and I never built that GL rally car.
Murphy has enough parts to build 2 RX-7's, but niether of them runs yet.
Tyson reverted to stock to buy something faster, but is still driving a stock WRX.

Shit happenes... threads like this are fun, but the odds are and history shows, people don't usually follow through on stuff like this.

Don't forget the turbo kit I had in mind when I bought my miata, which may or may not ever come to fruition. but, that's balanced out by your car, which more or less where you envisioned it being, at least on a macro scale, right?

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by A1337STI

Probably a great idea to just buy the cheapest , class eligable car, that doesn't need everything replaced. (loved the idea of driving an impreza but , does not look like it would work out well)

I've got a weilder who is gonna make me a roll cage for material costs [300-400], and my nav man allready agreed to buy his seat and safty harness . although it could still be very hard to have a car ready for less then 2K. i have heard a lot about baja bugs / bug kits/ old bugs being a cheap rebuild / repair . infact i had a buddy who rebuilt 1 bug and 2 karman gias , and i know he kept his costs way down.

My main goal is to have a lot of fun, and hopefully finish a stage im more concerned abou keeping costs down , then winning 1st.

[and yarr i've decided to keep my STI totally stock , love my warentee and waste money on something else]

I'd be real careful about letting "a welder" build your cage, because rallying is basically as dangerous as it gets. You *will* crash this car; no doubt. If you're lucky, you can beat on it with a BFH and replace a few parts like struts and control arms and keep going... if your safety equipment is up to par. And like Scott said, there's awhole lot more to safety than a roll cage. You need proper FIA approved seats. Firesuit. Fire system (extinguishers don't count, I believe). Fuel cell. Etc. etc. etc. then you also need a support vehicle to tow the car AND the car's weight practically in wheels, tires, spare parts, tools, and personal gear.

If you really do think you're going to go rally, stop searching for beaters to build. Seriously. You'll drop $4k into the project and maybe a year before you realize you can't get there from here, especially when you (at least fo rnow) can't really do any of the work yourself. I don't know if you remember Project Rally Beater from SCC, but I do. I had a 1984 RWD Toyota Celica that I was going to try to do what you did. I was lucky enough to become friends with someone who actually *has* built rally cars from scratch. His advice? Don't do it. Period. ever.
Back to Project Rally Beater. Their advice? Don't do it. Ever. It was an awesome experience, but it was the hard way, and they wouldn't have been able to pull it off without both a free car sitting in the driveway, and massive amounts of hookups do to being staff at a car magazine, not to mention extensive personal knowledge of building and modifying cars. Then they put their money where their mouth was, by switching to a Nissan Sentra that was professionally prepped after a season and a half in the 510.

[rubberbiscuitt]

i know the potential welder for this project really well, and i think he'll do an ok job. he's done an off road race truck roll bar, a few nhra spec roll bars, and 90+ custom hot rod chassis. my look is that as the driver gets better, he'll wreck the car and go through a few beaters. soon after contingancy money, and experience gains he can afford a decent car and can start to pay the welder.

[sti deede]

Originally Posted by sperry

Murphy has enough parts to build 2 RX-7's, but niether of them runs yet.

He's getting pretty close, I got to hang out with him the last 2 times I was up in Reno and the car is at his roommates shop the engine is back and he was getting ready to drop it in. He has most of the parts stored throughout the condo, so any work left on it is little stuff at this point.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by rubberbiscuitt

i know the potential welder for this project really well, and i think he'll do an ok job. he's done an off road race truck roll bar, a few nhra spec roll bars, and 90+ custom hot rod chassis. my look is that as the driver gets better, he'll wreck the car and go through a few beaters. soon after contingancy money, and experience gains he can afford a decent car and can start to pay the welder.

To clarify, the welding skill required isnt what I was warning him against. I believe you when you say you know what you are doing. There are very very specific FIA rules regarding rallye safety cages, and if they are not met precisely, you don't get to race. It's the lack of an experienced roll bar designer that's more of an issue.

[A1337STI]

Yes that's very true. there's a guy down carson who will design your roll cage (i think cutting the metal for you) and he charges $40 an hour. (though if its 10 hours that's $400) and then you have to weld it in. Its definatly an option.

It definatly will be a difficult project, but i at least need to take a crack at it (or so i think) i have found a used rally car for sale 4K obo , comes with lots of spare parts. that is an option too.

[tysonK]

I'm on the list! owned.

[sybir]

Originally Posted by A1337STI

It definatly will be a difficult project, but i at least need to take a crack at it (or so i think) i have found a used rally car for sale 4K obo , comes with lots of spare parts. that is an option too.

That's going to be far and away cheaper than building *anything*

[murphy]

so not true scott...I've started the prefit stage and finding all the little things to fix adjust...As DEEDE stated my engine is back...and here is a pic of it while my friend and I were test fitting the pullies... kind of hard making us RX-7 parts fit on a motor never sold in any car in the states

[A1337STI]

Nice Motor

[sperry]

Originally Posted by murphy

so not true scott...I've started the prefit stage and finding all the little things to fix adjust...As DEEDE stated my engine is back...and here is a pic of it while my friend and I were test fitting the pullies... kind of hard making us RX-7 parts fit on a motor never sold in any car in the states

Yeah, but does it run yet? 'Cause I'm pretty sure I said:

Originally Posted by sperry

Murphy has enough parts to build 2 RX-7's, but niether of them runs yet.

Considering it was like 3 years and a tour in Afganistan ago that you and I bullshitted about the 7 you were building, I had to religate it to my "believe it when I see it" list. I'm glad to see that it's coming together. So far you're 1st in line to be #2 to get your pipe-dream built.

[murphy]

Ok so you got me its not "running" YET but I'm making damn good use of the parts I collected!

[A1337STI]

I'll bring this car out to Saturday's Test N Tune

http://www.dirtyimpreza.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=3931

thread containing roll cage building pics.

Yep, Its actually happening. I'll be getting my car tech inspected hopefully in a few weeks to a month so i know well ahead of time if anything isn't up to Snuff.

looks like nasa rally driving license is cheaper than Rally america too (the northern nv rally event will be done through Nasa, instead of RA)


I did end up buying a Used 93 FWD Imp . may not have been the best choice for raly, or my wallet. But i've been learning a lot while trying to work on it. (then begging my friends for help , bribing with beer and pizza seems to work well)

Its definitely NOT Fast, But it was cheap. Reliable Only time will tell. It feels like it wants to be reliable , and i've replaced a whole heck of a lot in it (Pressure plate, fly wheel, clutch, , rear main seal, cam seals, front main seal (crank seal?), water pump o ring + gasket type material, steering pump seal, serpintine belt, battery, plugs, wires)

Chassis feels Crazy stiff, now that i have the roll cage. It corners really well, though that's probabl mostly due to it being light weight (KBB says 2350 ??) i'll have to roll it onto some scales to see what it really weights though.

[rubberbiscuitt]

too slow about the link... haha... i already linked it, in it's own thread for my own braggin rights.