Racing

[100_Percent_Juice]

Hey all,

I know most here are pretty big into autox and all but, I was wondering about other racing. Personally I am not interested in doing autox but i would like to do some form of racing. Basically I want to take my car on a track and go fast, maybe time trial or something. Anyways im obviously very new to racing of any kind. Give me some tips for someone who doesnt want to invest a bunch of money but still wants to be able to hit a track once in a while and have some fun.
thanks

joel

[tysonK]

You pretty much have to spend a pretty good amount of money to do any kind of auto sport.

There is a reason super crazy rich guys own racing teams.

You can go fast at track days and the like but you won't feel very safe going 100mph on used all seasons.

Even autox can add up pretty fast in a financial sense.

I'll let the others chime in, but this is a tough road.

[Nick Koan]

Track days.

Don't worry about competitive racing just yet, but I'd suggest that you go to track days (also known as HPDE, PDX, etc).

[tysonK]

Originally Posted by nKoan

Track days.

Don't worry about competitive racing just yet, but I'd suggest that you go to track days (also known as HPDE, PDX, etc).

I'd say track days are minimum $250 and up, and up fast.

Not really cheap.

[Nick Koan]

Originally Posted by tysonK

I'd say track days are minimum $250 and up, and up fast.

Not really cheap.

But you can't hit the track for cheaper. Not without bolt cutters.

[Bob Danger]

Originally Posted by nKoan

But you can't hit the track for cheaper. Not without bolt cutters.

I've done that. It was a Shifter Kart track.

[sperry]

I would suggest autocross.

Sure you say you're not interested, but have you ever done it? It'll only cost you $35 to give it a shot for a day, and if you come to this year's autocross school in April, you can get a feeling for it and some driving pointers. Reno SCCA also has an excellent Novice program that will get you on the course w/o all the hassles of car classifications and class points, if you just want to drive.

Plus, autocross is faster than you think. 65mph may sound "weak" but I guarantee you it seems a hell of a lot faster than putting along on the freeway. If you've ever lost control of a car at >60, you know how suddenly 60 goes from "hum-drum" to "oh-no-I-just-shit-my-pants". Plus, there is no form of competitive motorsports cheaper than autocross. Like Tyson said, racing costs a lot, especially once you hit the track. Autocross had not only the lowest entry fees, it's also the cheapest in terms of tires, brakes, fuel, wear-and-tear, etc.

For example, my time trials car costs about $150 in tires, $60 in gas, $7 in oil, $40 in brakes per hour it's on the track. So, for a weekend of track competition, that's easily $1000 including the entry fee, but ignoring things like diesel fuel to tow the car to and from the track, food, and the cost of whatever it is that breaks on the car over the weekend, etc. Budget autocrossers can competitively race a whole season for $1000.

So, I guess you have to ask yourself, what's more important? Low cost? High speeds? Competition? Frankly, going fast is over-rated... if you want to go fast, buy a plane ticket to anywhere and go 400+ mph at 30,000 feet... pure speed is no fun... what's fun is G-force; accelerating, stopping, turning as fast as you can. There's *plenty* of that in autocross, far more than there is at the track. Hell, one minute of autocross requires more frequent and precise driving inputs than an hour in a Formula 1 car.

All I'm saying is, autocross is probably a *lot* more of what you're looking for, you just don't know it. If you haven't tried it, definitely give it a shot. If afterwards, you still think you need something "bigger", Reno SCCA has 4 PDX events this season scheduled at Reno-Fernley Raceway (it's about as cheap as you can get for hitting a top-notch race-track), and if you look around, there's pretty much a track day somewhere on the west-coast every weekend, but you certainly won't get out there on the cheap.

[MPREZIV]

After my first year of auto-x, hell, to be honest, my first event, I can definitely say it's about the most fun I've EVER had for $35! I can admit, on the outside, it doesn't seem like nearly the same rush as flying around a track at 100+mph, but it's definitely one of those "don't knock it 'till you try it" kinda things!

And if you DO come out to auto-x, and still feel it's really "not your thing", no big loss! It's only $35!

[zpeed]

There are alot of racing around Reno area. It's come down to time and money. I start with gokart 15 years ago (god!! I'm getting old) then auto-x and just last year start track day at RFR with my S. This are just my idea of how easy to start one with out getting too serious.

Gokart:
Pro: real racing with other karts, rubbing, passing, out brake the other guys.
Con: have to buy a kart and parts, time load up the trailer and practice on Sat , Sun
race all day. You wife get mad for going all weekend.

Auto-x:
Pro: cheap use what ever you got, only half a day.
Con: on average only 1 min of 4-6 runs. You wife get mad for gone half a day.

Track day @ RFR
Pro: use what you drive, 20 min on track each session on your own car is awesome
feeling.
Con: if you lost control...not good. She just get mad for no reason.

Then it get more and more money when you max out your car and not your limit. At RFR my S start to float going to the 1st turn at 100 mph (need new shocks and springs). My car start to smell and smoke at the end of the day (need new pads). The car start to slide more (need new rims and sticky tires). She get mad for spend all the money on the car and she did not see anything difference (it looks and feels the same why do you have to change it).

[AtomicLabMonkey]

What they said.

You're not looking for racing, you're looking for auto-x and maybe some driving events/track days. Racing on a track is an entirely different ballgame. The costs to run in pretty much any actual competition held on a road course are extremely high. Not to mention all the car preparation ($$), training ($$), membership ($$), licensing ($$), etc. you need before series officials will let you even put a wheel on the track.

"Racing" and "doesnt want to invest a bunch of money" are mutually exclusive.

[MattR]

I truly enjoy auto x, it's a great form of competition. I'd recommend at lesat giving it a try.

I ran a full time trial season with Scott last year, and I'd estimate my direct cost to be in the $2500-$3000 range with entry, tires, brakes, fuel, travel. So it by no means is a "budget" series. In comparison to other racing series it is though.

Track days are a lot of fun, and great way to get track time without spending a ton of money.

[100_Percent_Juice]

Thanks for all of the input. I have never done autoX but I am always down to try it. The reason I said that I wasnt interested in personally doing autoX is because I was under the impression that you put more wear on your car with autoX. I basically want to be able to test out and improve my driving ability because I know everyone thinks they are a good driver but, you never know until your on the track. I mean come on, who doesnt want to know they have mad skillz behind the wheel.

So tell me what I need to do/ prep my car/ prep my wallet/ to get into some autoX. My good friend in town also wants to do autoX with his blue buyeye. And from what ive heard those can be pretty fast

[JonnydaJibba]

You put way more wear on your car at a track. Autox runs are usually fairly short, you don't really get that much time or space to wear out your car. It's WAY cheaper than a track day, and it's damn addictive! IMO autox is a good way to test the limits of your car and find out your driving skill in a safe environment. There is nothing to crash into really except cones. I think it's the safest form of racing using a daily driver.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by 100_Percent_Juice

Thanks for all of the input. I have never done autoX but I am always down to try it. The reason I said that I wasnt interested in personally doing autoX is because I was under the impression that you put more wear on your car with autoX. I basically want to be able to test out and improve my driving ability because I know everyone thinks they are a good driver but, you never know until your on the track. I mean come on, who doesnt want to know they have mad skillz behind the wheel.

If all you want to do is improve your skills, go to any of the performance driving schools. I am associated with the two day Audi club events as well as Hooked On Driving, etc.

There will also be the Reno SCCA's PDXs out at RFR this year.

You can participate in these for < $200/day typically. Instruction will vary.

I personally reccomend the Audi club schools due to our focus on classroom and in car instruction.

Autocross teaches slightly different skills and does probably represent more wear on your car on a per day basis than a driving school, but given the cost differntial, it is probably pretty close to a wash.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

Autocross ... probably represent more wear on your car on a per day basis than a driving school, but given the cost differntial, it is probably pretty close to a wash.

I disagree. Once day of autocross is about 6 minutes of driving. One day at a PDX/HPDE is usually around 90 minutes of driving. While you can make an argument that the harshness of the transitions at autocross may put more wear on things like wheel bearings, I don't think there's anyway you can compare 90 minutes of tire and brake wear at much higher speeds vs. 6 minutes of autocross, or the time the motor spends under much harder loads at the track and all the shifting at the track vs. almost no shifting at autocross.

(BTW: haven't we had this exact argument before?)

[NevadaSTi]

Originally Posted by sperry

(BTW: haven't we had this exact argument before?)

[Dean]

Originally Posted by sperry

I disagree. Once day of autocross is about 6 minutes of driving. One day at a PDX/HPDE is usually around 90 minutes of driving. While you can make an argument that the harshness of the transitions at autocross may put more wear on things like wheel bearings, I don't think there's anyway you can compare 90 minutes of tire and brake wear at much higher speeds vs. 6 minutes of autocross, or the time the motor spends under much harder loads at the track and all the shifting at the track vs. almost no shifting at autocross.

(BTW: haven't we had this exact argument before?)

Beginner PDX driving is hardly different than street driving. Beginning autocrossers typically destroy tires and mash gears and burn clutches.

Autocross doesn't get the warmup and cool down PDX does or should.

I would agree that as PDX drivers get more aggrssive, they give the car a good beating, but autocrossers do so from the get go. Banging gears and flogging the suspension and tires.

[tysonK]

I would say you are more likely to total your car at a PDX than an autocross.

[dknv]

Originally Posted by tysonK

I would say you are more likely to total your car at a PDX than an autocross.

Or, someone totals you. Slim possibility, but still there.

[dknv]

Originally Posted by 100_Percent_Juice

...So tell me what I need to do/ prep my car/ prep my wallet/ to get into some autoX. My good friend in town also wants to do autoX with his blue buyeye. And from what ive heard those can be pretty fast

Attend the Reno SCCA autocross school on April 14 at Stead Airport. Bring your license, your car, $35, and if you don't have a helmet we have loaners.
(There were other preparation threads on here, some year or two or three back, they have all kinds of good ideas on what you can do to prep.)

[Tahoe C5]

If you want to make a small fortune racing cars.....start with a big fortune!

[100_Percent_Juice]

listen, its time to cut the shit. I have the need... the need for speed, and i cant satisfy that on the street so ill do the autox class. Not because I want to become a master at autoX but just to get the just of it before diving in. I dont want to be a danger to myself or others. Its like hunters safety I guess. I imagine I will like it but as far as burning my clutch and jammin gears, im not too worried. I treasure my car as if it were my daily driver... because it is. I will give it a shot and see if it proves to be a good outlet for me. If not... may god have mercy on our souls.

[zpeed]

See you on April 14.

[Joeyy]

About the lowner helmets. In next year all the helmets have to be SA2000 certified. Will we have to trash some of the old helmets at the bus and look for some more dontations?

For 100% Juice, what tires do you run during the summer? My all seasons survived the first event I did but it was not pretty. Just a note for ya. I should have added a hoop load of air pressure and then the shoulders of the tires would have taken it so hard. If your car has a few years on it, I'd check your brakes very close for your safety and so you have more fun.

When we get closer to the season this site will expload with autocross talk. If your looking to run on different dates, you may want to look for a San Francisco or Sacramento event dates. At Stead, I'd just say get there early so your not rushed in inspection the first time, help set up the course and walk the course with as many different people that you can and listen close to the old dudes.

Get used to having a big smile on your face because after your first event you'll have a big grin stuck on your mug for weeks.

[Dean]

Bunch of northern wussies. Season starts in LV Jan 14 (which I will miss due to being at Thunderhill.) and the second event is Jan 28th.