Reno scca "Pro class" supp.

[SFVette]

Just wanted to post a draft of what I had on a possible new class for the region. Looking for imput. Is it easy for nubies to understand? Any thing you think I should add or change?

Pro class:
Reno Region will offer a "Pro" class to create a more competitive environment for all drivers. The "Pro" class is provided to promote national-level competition on a regional level.
Competitor’s times will be computed based upon the current PAX index for the SCCA class in which their car normally would be eligible to run.
This class will be open to any driver. Visiting national level drivers are encouraged to run in "Pro" class as to not disrupt regional series championship results and regional PAX championship.
All "Pro" tire class cars will display an “P" preceding their normal SCCA classes such as “PCSP”.
All National and Regional class are eligible to compete.
There will be no street tire handicap in "Pro" class.
"Pro" class trophies will be awarded on the same basis as for other classes.
Only the first 3 runs of "Pro" class will count for the competition. The best of first 3 runs will be scored using PAX index. All other runs taken will be for test-n-tune purpose only and will not be scored for competition but may be seen in results to ease the burden on Timing & Scoring.
Competitors will follow the National rules and Reno Region supplemental rules excluding supp. 4.9.
Any competitor who is scored in the "Pro" class will not be scored in the regions PAX championship for that event in which they ran in the "Pro" class.

Lucas

[MattR]

Looks Good Lucas, Is regional sup 4.9 the only one that needs exclusion? I'd really like to see this class get off the ground...

[Dean]

Some thoughts on consolidation and reordering

Pro class:
The Pro class is provided to promote national-level competition on a regional level.

Only a competitor's first 3 runs will count for competition. The best of those runs will be scored using the PAX index for the National class the car would normally run in. Any additional runs will be for test-n-tune purpose only and may not appear or be accurate in the official results at the discretion of Timing & Scoring. [I'm thinking the easiest trick may be to just add 10 cones to the 4th+ runs or DNF them. Mike?]

All National rules and Reno Region supplemental rules will be in force excluding Reno 4.9.

Regional classes and Street Tire "modifier" will not used in Pro class. [I assume that is what you meant]

All Pro class cars will display an “P" preceding their normal SCCA classes such as "PSS" or “PCSP”.

Class trophies will be awarded on the same basis as for other classes. Pro class competitors will not be scored in event or season PAX results.



Scott, do you have the draft of the 07 supps?

[dknv]

Originally Posted by Dean

All National rules and Reno Region supplemental rules will be in force excluding Reno 4.9.[and the rider Supp which appears to be missing from 2006 supps????????]

I just looked, and found it as the 2nd sentence in 4.9. We're talking about passengers, right?

[Dean]

Originally Posted by dknv

I just looked, and found it as the 2nd sentence in 4.9. We're talking about passengers, right?

Doh... Edited...

[dknv]

One other item: order of running? I assume we want P drivers to run at the same time as their associated class, that is, if I were running PBS (and I'm assuming we're having 1 Pro class, not one for open and one for ladies), then I run at the same time as BS.
Not (necessarily) all P drivers in one run group, is that correct?

[Dean]

Originally Posted by dknv

One other item: order of running? I assume we want P drivers to run at the same time as their associated class, that is, if I were running PBS (and I'm assuming we're having 1 Pro class, not one for open and one for ladies), then I run at the same time as BS.
Not (necessarily) all P drivers in one run group, is that correct?

The discussion at the meeting is that all Ps run together as T used to.

[MattR]

Yeah, I believe the ideal setup for P class would be to have them run together in the same run group (Much like how we ran the street tire group in 2005). That will take away any variations in weather/ track conditions, etc. So basically P is treated as a class.

[dknv]

Originally Posted by MattR

Yeah, I believe the ideal setup for P class would be to have them run together in the same run group (Much like how we ran the street tire group in 2005). That will take away any variations in weather/ track conditions, etc. So basically P is treated as a class.

Ok. Then help me understand, if P is a class, why it would not be eligible for pax as well? (Other than the aspect of eliminating them from 'disrupting' the chase for pax points.)

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Dean

[I'm thinking the easiest trick may be to just add 10 cones to the 4th+ runs or DNF them. Mike?]

I would imagine people will want to know if they actually DNFd in the last few runs. Right now I am planning on doing it properly by hand for the first few events, and I will see how much extra workload it is. Maybe this might inspire me to finally work on some software to do the points

[MattR]

Because they are running under a seperate set of rules, and basically buying in to their own PAX/Class format. We don't have to pull them from the overall PAX points , but the general consensus from interested parties implied that running it as it's own seperate challenge made the most sense. This is the impression I got from the people present at the meeting including Lucas, Mark etc...

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by dknv

Ok. Then help me understand, if P is a class, why it would not be eligible for pax as well? (Other than the aspect of eliminating them from 'disrupting' the chase for pax points.)

The biggest reason is roughly 1/2-3/4 of the Pro class people are running in a different group than people running in their regular class. Pro-class SM cars running in the third run group are going to be faster than SM cars running in the first group most of the year.

[SFVette]

Thanks all who have given input.
Dean your revision is exactly what I was trying to say. Supp. 4.9 deals with walking the course or using a bike as well as passengers. I would like to eliminate bikes and riding before your timed runs. Having someone ride with you is ok but I don't like the idea of riding before your runs.
As for PAX points Mark has a different view than I. He thinks that the new class should still qualify for the PAX championship. I'm not sure it should. Sure you are at a disadvantage only getting 3 runs but I still think the top drivers in "Pro" could sweep PAX as well. I guess I was thinking that with this class we would eliminate the PAX champion as the Driver of the Year. And we could all debate who it was each year. Lastly I would like to see the "Pro" class get trophies last.

[Kevin M]

Only getting 3 runs definitely puts you at a disadvantage in Open PAX. IfF the class is determined to be eligible for OP, all 5 (or however many) runs should count towards that.

[sperry]

I'm going to be running a revision to the proposed '07 supps soon. I'll include this in them and modify the formatting to match the rest of the '07 document.

I'm undecided as to what to do about PAX and Pro. Taking Pros out of PAX would certainly eliminate the DOTY connotations to the award. But if I'm running in SM instead of PSM, I'd still really like to see how I stack up to the Pro drivers in PAX. I think I'd be willing to just go w/ whatever the majority opinion is on that one.

[Dean]

I think trying to do three runs for class, and five for PAX is unreasonable for T&S.

And on second thought, if P class competitors can take overall PAX with only 3 runs, more power to them...

OK new 4.9 section rewrite... Also excluding 6.8A

All National rules and Reno Region supplemental rules will be in force excluding Reno 4.9 & Reno 6.8A.

Pro class competitors are only permitted to be passengers, have passengers or use a bicycle on course after completing their competitive runs.

Pro class competitors in two driver cars must alternate drivers after each run.

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Dean

I think trying to do three runs for class, and five for PAX is unreasonable for T&S.

Not a problem, new software to handle it all (and make toast) is almost done

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by Dean

Use of bicycles is not permitted prior are allowed on course during “walking” of the course for regional events only.

Does this engrish mean that bikes are or aren't allowed?

[Dean]

Originally Posted by MikeK

Does this engrish mean that bikes are or aren't allowed?

Fixed. Left over cut and paste mess.

[MikeK]

Willl there be a separate ladies version of this pax class, or will everyone be lumped into one group?

[Kevin M]

Motion for seperate Ladies' class, simply because that's how National Tour events work.

[SFVette]

We should include a separate ladies class so that we could have more than two drivers for each car. I also rewrote the supp to have the class eligible for regional PAX championship but only the first 3 runs will count in class and for PAX

[MikeK]

Bump!

Have any decisions been made about this? Specifally I want to know the following for the software I am writing:

- Will it definately be only the first 3 runs for the pax classes?

- Will the people in pax class still be elegible for open/ladies pax points?

- If so, will they still only be able to use the first 3 runs, or can they use all their runs for open/ladies pax?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by MikeK

Bump!

Have any decisions been made about this? Specifally I want to know the following for the software I am writing:

- Will it definately be only the first 3 runs for the pax classes?

- Will the people in pax class still be elegible for open/ladies pax points?

- If so, will they still only be able to use the first 3 runs, or can they use all their runs for open/ladies pax?

You're probably not going to be able to get an answer until after the next SCCA meeting on Mar 7.

I would venture to guess that Pro will only use the 1st three runs, and I'd like Pro to count for open/ladies PAX (and that all runs count) but that's way up in the air... there's been no discussion by the board about it... everyone's too busy discussing a trailer for the bus (that we don't need) and a reorganization of our monthly financial report format (that we also don't need).

[Kevin M]

Isn't the Board basically going to adopt whatever Mark and Lucas write up? Why don't we ask them?