The last? brake fluid thread... HA

[Dean]

5.1 is OK (completely different than Silicone based DOT 5)and may be good/great depending on real wet/dry numbers.

All but the Ford fluid in post 1 exceed the 5.1 standard of 509/356. What brand/product name is the Napa stuff under and what are the specs?

Stoptech has a great article on brake fluids if you never read it from my indirect link in the first post.

I suggest anyone who bought a cheap pressure bleeder read that section... and then sell it on Nasioc to someone else. Read the rest, but the last bit is priceless.

Originally Posted by Stoptech

Your best bet is probably to get back in the driver’s seat and begin stroking the pedal with your foot again...

[sperry]

Here's my opinion on the "cheap" pressure bleeders: fluid under 30 psi air pressure for 15 minutes is not going to collect enough air to make a difference on a car that's getting its fluid replaced 3 and 4 times a year. I use a pressure bleeder because I bleed my brakes so often, it's a PITA to do it w/ two people all the time.

Considering the low humidity in Reno, I'm not worried about air potentially getting into the fluid, and my experience at the track backs it up, as I've never noticed a difference between brakes bled w/ a pressure bleeder or by hand (er... foot).

Now, if you're a shop that's putting brake fluid into a car that's going to be driven for the next 5 years w/o a flush... yeah, take the extra step and store that fluid in a vacuum can, use a bladdered bleeder, etc. But if you're like me w/ a track car that gets bled before each event... IMO, you can get by just fine w/ a month old opened can of SuperBlue and a cheap pressure bleeder. I've never had an issue w/ a spongy pedal or fluid fade.

[Dean]

What you say is fair for your circumstances, and they kind of say as much in the article, but if you have access to a spare leg and foot to push the pedal, that is going to be better.

Probably the real gotcha is if you do not empty, clean and DRY your pressure bleeder, and hose after every use and check before use.

Old fluid, condensation or anything in there before you start a new flush/bleed is going to be bad.

[WRXlerate]

The color really helped when flushing, someone was a genius when they thought up that concept.

[20psiMR]

I heard the blue turns to straight GOOP if you overheat it, so be real careful with that. Had a friend that took 3 flushes to get all that crap out of the system, so I stay well away from it.

I use Motul 600 and a motive brake bleeder, never had any problems.

Also dont forget Castrol SRF, it is THE BEST hands down fluid you can buy. At $75 a liter though, it frickin better be. Thats what all the race teams use though, so if you wanna be baller status, have at it lol.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by 20psiMR

I heard the blue turns to straight GOOP if you overheat it, so be real careful with that. Had a friend that took 3 flushes to get all that crap out of the system, so I stay well away from it.

Where? I have never had it turn to goop, it just doesn't hold it's dry point as well as the gold is the story I believe from Stoptech. How can it take more than one flush if done right? A flush implies you run enough through to remove all the old. This takes far more than the capacity of the system and many bleeds per wheel regardless of what the previous fluid was. The blue color just tells you when you are done. Flushing from one yellow fluid to another how do you know when you are done?

Originally Posted by 20psiMR

Also dont forget Castrol SRF, it is THE BEST hands down fluid you can buy. At $75 a liter though, it frickin better be. Thats what all the race teams use though, so if you wanna be baller status, have at it lol.

No, it isn't, and probably far more race teams don't use it than do. Other DOT 4/5.1 fluids have higher dry boiling points, and race teams change fluid often enough that the wet boiling point is meaningless which is where SRF excels. SRF should not be mixed with other fluids and if you choose to use it, it is recommended that the brake system to be dismantled and/or cleaned/flushed with alcohol or something. Dismantling is probably cheaper than flushing with enough SRF to purge the intermediate alcohol. Some would suggest that seals should be replaced as well. And while it is not a pure silicone based DOT 5 fluid, it does share one of the downsides of being more compressible.

[MattR]

I go back and forth between ATE Blue and Gold, and have never had any issues, and I've operated at some very high brake temps. In fact, I have blue in the car now.

Oh, and the motive brake bleeder is the best money I've ever spent, I love that thing.

[Kevin M]

My strategy is to run Motul or Typ200 with a reservoir full of SuperBlue to get visual confirmation between flushes. Blue works just fine, but it does stain plastics and degrades some over time.

[zpeed]

I use speed bleeder with Ate Blue/200.

[van]

I've the most awesome bleeder in my garage, hooks up to my air compressor and pulls out the fluid at the calipers. I don't know what its called but I'm going to have to buy one when the owner of this one wants it back.

[Kevin M]

He should probably fire up his compressor and find out if it even still works first.

[van]

I used to be a compressor mechanic? DOD style

[szucchet]

i have motul 600 and have never boiled my brakes and you can buy it locally

[van]

Originally Posted by szucchet

you can buy it locally

Where?

[Dean]

I have a few spare bottles since my car is down if you want... Can bring them to the lake.

[van]

Originally Posted by Dean

I have a few spare bottles since my car is down if you want... Can bring them to the lake.

Awesome, thanks Dean

[szucchet]

Originally Posted by van

Where?

Motor machine and suply not sure on the adress but if you google it it's there. I bought some recently it was little more tha online but you don't have to ship(they Carrie the whole motul line, oil, trans, etc)

[WRXlerate]

Originally Posted by van

I've the most awesome bleeder in my garage, hooks up to my air compressor and pulls out the fluid at the calipers. I don't know what its called but I'm going to have to buy one when the owner of this one wants it back.

Van, when you figure out what it's called let me know. I'd be interested in getting one as well. Thx

[Kevin M]

It's called "cheap bleeder that I got at Harbor Freight." They're still there I'm sure. Probably like $18 or something. There's two parts- the part that hooks to a compressor and pulls the fluid out of the bleeder, and a little reservoir bottle that you invert over the brake fluid reservoir to stop it from going dry.

[A1337STI]

I just tried out some Wildwood EXP 600. it performed perfectly in my last 2 rallies.

I would also fully trust super blue / gold as well.

I've used Motul 600 in my Sti, great stuff as well. really if that's your potential list, you can't go wrong.

Motel is cheapest at micheal motor works, summit for super blue / wilwood.

[20psiMR]

I was riding with a guy at SMMP in Pahrump, and he was using blue. We went off at the hairpin because he lost pedal completely. That shit turned to goop when we bled it, it had the consistency of chewed bubble gum stuck to the pavement on a hot day. I dont know, you guys have subys so maybe its different but our brembos get HOT. Hot enough to turn the calipers black. Mine have started to turn a bit of brownbo too, but when I put on my two piece rotors it helped quite a bit on fade during 30 min sessions. If you guys havent had a problem with ATE then I wouldnt worry about it, but I have heard a few horror stories about it turning gummy and taking multiple flushes to get it all out (in chunks) on evoM.

All I can say is the bigtime trackwhores on evoM use mainly Castrol SRF. Then its either Motul rbf600 or the Amsoil racing dot 4 (its pretty cheap too, similar dry as motul but a bit lower wet IIRC). Im just going by what the other track junkies talk about across the country, like I said I use motul and have never had a problem.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by 20psiMR

I was riding with a guy at SMMP in Pahrump, and he was using blue. We went off at the hairpin because he lost pedal completely. That shit turned to goop when we bled it, it had the consistency of chewed bubble gum stuck to the pavement on a hot day. I dont know, you guys have subys so maybe its different but our brembos get HOT. Hot enough to turn the calipers black. Mine have started to turn a bit of brownbo too, but when I put on my two piece rotors it helped quite a bit on fade during 30 min sessions. If you guys havent had a problem with ATE then I wouldnt worry about it, but I have heard a few horror stories about it turning gummy and taking multiple flushes to get it all out (in chunks) on evoM.

All I can say is the bigtime trackwhores on evoM use mainly Castrol SRF. Then its either Motul rbf600 or the Amsoil racing dot 4 (its pretty cheap too, similar dry as motul but a bit lower wet IIRC). Im just going by what the other track junkies talk about across the country, like I said I use motul and have never had a problem.

IMO, anyone that's heating their brakes that much is probably over braking, or has added too much horsepower without addressing their brakes with proper ducting. More than likely, a little bit of racecraft will take care of that overheating issue... brake a little sooner, a little lighter, then lift off earlier and smoother and carry the speed through the corner instead of relying on the AWD and big power to make up for over slowing on corner entry. Many drivers with lots of power and traction tend to rely on the engine to make up for poor apex speed because they simply don't know they're giving up so much because they're still faster than all the other lower hp cars out there.

Additionally, I'd be keen to know what other fluids they might have been running w/ that SuperBlue. Some of those fluids are not compatible and result in that goop you're describing.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by sperry

IMO, anyone that's heating their brakes that much is probably over braking, or has added too much horsepower without addressing their brakes with proper ducting. More than likely, a little bit of racecraft will take care of that overheating issue... brake a little sooner, a little lighter, then lift off earlier and smoother and carry the speed through the corner instead of relying on the AWD and big power to make up for over slowing on corner entry. Many drivers with lots of power and traction tend to rely on the engine to make up for poor apex speed because they simply don't know they're giving up so much because they're still faster than all the other lower hp cars out there.

Additionally, I'd be keen to know what other fluids they might have been running w/ that SuperBlue. Some of those fluids are not compatible and result in that goop you're describing.

What he said... I am pretty sure I told Scott the sooner, lighter, smoother stuff a few years back.

It sounds more like a chemical reaction than fluid failure. I have seen a lot of overheated fluid and never seen anything other than dirty liquid.

[20psiMR]

That is quite possible, he may not have bled whatever he had in there first before he put in the ATE. And evos are heavy pigs, thats why I addressed brakes early on. Some of them learn the "off" way hehe. Nobody wants to spend money on brakes until theyre sliding towards a wall at 110 I guess!

[Dean]

Originally Posted by 20psiMR

That is quite possible, he may not have bled whatever he had in there first before he put in the ATE. And evos are heavy pigs, thats why I addressed brakes early on. Some of them learn the "off" way hehe. Nobody wants to spend money on brakes until theyre sliding towards a wall at 110 I guess!

The right fluid (the purpose of this thread) and good pads make all the difference with any setup. Some cooling helps as well.

STI Brembos are the same and it weighs about the same, so same issues, but even the smaller WRX setup is OK with good stuff. Not race ready, but trackable...

Going off due to lack of brakes means they weren't paying attention. Brakes seldom fail all at once. Ignore fade at your own risk.