Harness options

[Kevin M]

Can you bring it to a meet or something? I'd still like to take a look at it.

[zpeed]

I never make it to the meeting I live down South by Wal-mart and work neat Summit Racing in Sparks. So let me know?

[AtomicLabMonkey]

The only tech info I found on the Schroth website was a blurb about the anti-submarining aspect of their street belts, which only mentions it in the context of frontal impacts - it doesn't say anything about roll overs. I'm not sure I'd trust the inboard belt to unfold during a pure roll over; it won't generate the kind of tension in the belt that a frontal impact will.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

The only tech info I found on the Schroth website was a blurb about the anti-submarining aspect of their street belts, which only mentions it in the context of frontal impacts - it doesn't say anything about roll overs. I'm not sure I'd trust the inboard belt to unfold during a pure roll over; it won't generate the kind of tension in the belt that a frontal impact will.

Exactly. In a 'crash' they definitely kick ass, possibly even better than OEM. But go on your lid, you're coming out of it shorter.

[doubleurx]

Ok so back to harnesses.

After all the concern over the roll over issue, I found myself as the only one without a harness at RFR last weekend. Did anyone ever clarify the issue of rollovers, or did you guys just decide it was worth the trade-off. After being thrown around in my car, hitting my helmet on the side roof, I think I will get them as well. Even with the seatbelt trick, I still found that the shoulder belt would loosen after the first lap. I can only imagine that the control over your car with harnesses is greatly improved since you are not supporting yourself so much with the steering wheel.

Also any input regarding the difference between the Schroth Ralleye 3 or 4? They are roughly the same price but mount differently to the back seat.

[MikeSTI]

Originally Posted by doubleurx

Ok so back to harnesses.

After all the concern over the roll over issue, I found myself as the only one without a harness at RFR last weekend. Did anyone ever clarify the issue of rollovers, or did you guys just decide it was worth the trade-off. After being thrown around in my car, hitting my helmet on the side roof, I think I will get them as well. Even with the seatbelt trick, I still found that the shoulder belt would loosen after the first lap. I can only imagine that the control over your car with harnesses is greatly improved since you are not supporting yourself so much with the steering wheel.

Also any input regarding the difference between the Schroth Ralleye 3 or 4? They are roughly the same price but mount differently to the back seat.

I think the Ralleye 3's are the way to go, most use them and I think they are better mounting location then the 4's

[Dean]

Originally Posted by doubleurx

Ok so back to harnesses.

After all the concern over the roll over issue, I found myself as the only one without a harness at RFR last weekend. Did anyone ever clarify the issue of rollovers, or did you guys just decide it was worth the trade-off. After being thrown around in my car, hitting my helmet on the side roof, I think I will get them as well. Even with the seatbelt trick, I still found that the shoulder belt would loosen after the first lap. I can only imagine that the control over your car with harnesses is greatly improved since you are not supporting yourself so much with the steering wheel.

Also any input regarding the difference between the Schroth Ralleye 3 or 4? They are roughly the same price but mount differently to the back seat.

The seatback trick works beter if it is actually a seat slide trick. When done properly, it should not come loose. I do this all the time in student cars, and continue to reccomend it.

The Ralleye 3s do work well in our cars, though I am considering getting some sort of teflon or plastic sleeve for my headrest supports as they are wearing on my harness which will need to be replaced shortly.

In the event of a rollover that does not provide enough force to cause the Schroth inner belt to "fail", there could be more of a risk than a 3 point system. Then again, a 3 point system with good seat bolsters is not going to allow you to move much either under those same conditions.

Everyone must make their own choices on safety.

[doubleurx]

Thanks Dean. I am doing the trick like this:
1. slide seat all the way back.
2. put seat belt on.
3. tug on the shoulder belt and hold
4. slide seat forward.

It sits tight for like one lap then gets looser. It may be that I can't slide the seat far enough forward - long legs.

HMS does have a sale right now. They have the old ralleye 3 passenger side for $40 and full price for the driver side $149. It's in yellow, but I really do not care about the color.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by doubleurx

Thanks Dean. I am doing the trick like this:
1. slide seat all the way back.
2. put seat belt on.
3. tug on the shoulder belt and hold
4. slide seat forward.

It sits tight for like one lap then gets looser. It may be that I can't slide the seat far enough forward - long legs.

HMS does have a sale right now. They have the old ralleye 3 passenger side for $40 and full price for the driver side $149. It's in yellow, but I really do not care about the color.

Sounds like you may need to use the up and down lever as well, and/or the seat back.

$149 look like the best price out there right now for a driver's side.

[Libila]

How/where do you guys mount your harnesses?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Libila

How/where do you guys mount your harnesses?

The Schroth harnesses share the lower mounting point bolts w/ the stock front seat belts, and the rear shares the bolt for the top mounting point for the rear seatbelt (in the C pillar).

[Libila]

Originally Posted by sperry

The Schroth harnesses share the lower mounting point bolts w/ the stock front seat belts, and the rear shares the bolt for the top mounting point for the rear seatbelt (in the C pillar).

Is that the same for both Subaru sedans and coupes?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Libila

Is that the same for both Subaru sedans and coupes?

And even the wagons too!

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by Libila

Is that the same for both Subaru sedans and coupes?

The Schroth Harnesses are great, probably the best first option for most of us. Actually pretty much all of us without a cage. But if you're cheap and/or poor (and owning an RS is usually proof of at least one of those qualities ) you can use the LATCH anchors on the back dash to anchor your harnesses. I got my 5 point (I never bothered installing the crotch strap; no solid anchor points on a factory seat) harness off of racerwholesale.com for $70 shipped a while back. With Y-type shoulder belts like mine has, bolting it to the driver's side LATCH point puts it nearly in line with the center of the seat, and brings the straps back at exactly the angle you want if you do manage to run into something head-on. The only complaints I have are that my harness is latch-and-link instead of cam-lock, and even worse, the lap belts are pull-down instead of pull-up. Makes it harder to snug them down by yourself, and the latch takes longer to put on.

But if you can manage it, the Schroths are probably better overall than the type of harness I'm running.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

I got my 5 point (I never bothered installing the crotch strap; no solid anchor points on a factory seat) harness ...

There aren't on pretty much any racing seat I've seen either, you have to drill through the floorpan and install an anchor bolt/eye under the seat.

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

The only complaints I have ... even worse, the lap belts are pull-down instead of pull-up. Makes it harder to snug them down by yourself, and the latch takes longer to put on.

The pull-up style we tried in our car was even harder to cinch down than the pull-down style. You could only get it tight to a certain point, and then the adjuster was pretty much locked due to the angle you're pulling it at. It was loose enough that I wouldn't be comfortable driving the car like that.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

The Schroth Harnesses are great, probably the best first option for most of us. Actually pretty much all of us without a cage. But if you're cheap and/or poor (and owning an RS is usually proof of at least one of those qualities ) you can use the LATCH anchors on the back dash to anchor your harnesses. I got my 5 point (I never bothered installing the crotch strap; no solid anchor points on a factory seat) harness off of racerwholesale.com for $70 shipped a while back. With Y-type shoulder belts like mine has, bolting it to the driver's side LATCH point puts it nearly in line with the center of the seat, and brings the straps back at exactly the angle you want if you do manage to run into something head-on. The only complaints I have are that my harness is latch-and-link instead of cam-lock, and even worse, the lap belts are pull-down instead of pull-up. Makes it harder to snug them down by yourself, and the latch takes longer to put on.

But if you can manage it, the Schroths are probably better overall than the type of harness I'm running.

I don't know about using a mounting point designed for a 40lb babyseat to hold a 180+ lb adult. Those child seat anchors are not bolted straight to the unibody the way the seatbelt bolts are. I would stay away from a regular harness unless you're willing to install a cage or roll-bar, and just go w/ the Schroth.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by sperry

I don't know about using a mounting point designed for a 40lb babyseat to hold a 180+ lb adult. Those child seat anchors are not bolted straight to the unibody the way the seatbelt bolts are. I would stay away from a regular harness unless you're willing to install a cage or roll-bar, and just go w/ the Schroth.

Seconded....

[Kevin M]

The anchor is in the unibody structure. It's as strong as the anchor point on the rear OE shoulder belts you guys use for the Schroths.

[Libila]

Rally Innovations is going to make a harness bar for both coupe and sedan 2.5 RS owners. There is a thread about it going on www.rs25.com and here is what the bar will look like- http://www.rallyinnovations.com/prod...rspyphotos.htm

[Kevin M]

That may or may not work on a coupe. The seat belt anchors on the B pillars are higher than where that bar is set on the adjustables that the new body style has. It might work for our car, but I wouldn't count on it.

[Libila]

Those pictures don't show the actual 2.5 bar. That is for the later WRX and STi. What I was saying is that they are going to make a bar similar to the one in the link for 2.5s.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

The anchor is in the unibody structure. It's as strong as the anchor point on the rear OE shoulder belts you guys use for the Schroths.

I thought that fitting was only a 6 or 8mm instead of the 10mm or is it 11mm standard belt bolt. I looked at it pretty hard when I was deciding on an attachment point, and it didn't look like the rear deck was very reinforced in that area.

[Kevin M]

12mm bolt IIRC. Same as the rear shoulder belt is held down with.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

12mm bolt IIRC. Same as the rear shoulder belt is held down with.

Just verified on my 02 WRX, I can not speak for other models/years.

Normal seatbelt bolts are 7/16", child seat attachment points are 5/16", and yes, they are SAE, not metric. (Probably a regulatory thing)

Also from what I can tell visually, the thread depth of the fixture is only 1/2 to 2/3rds as deep on the child seat attachment points and the material surrounding them does not appear as sturdy as the material around the D pillar rear belt tensioner point most of us have used.

I would not use the child seat attachment points in my car for adult belt attachment points, especially a racing harness.

[dknv]

This is for anyone who hasn't seen this news on nabisco, or c-c, or other sites - STi crash at Streets of Willow - multiple factors (including speculation about 4-pt harnesses) which caused or worsened injuries to both driver and passenger. It could be a case study in track safety .... One of the people at the track recounted:


Here is what happened based upon the info I got that day, since I was running the same run group w/ the white STI. I did not see the accident happen, but came upon it as I came around to the front straight.

The STI was following another car who dropped a fender liner in the middle of the front straight. The driver of the STI swerved left and dropped two wheels into the dirt. He may have tried to correct, and that action/reaction shot him across the track into the infield wall. Both driver and passenger were wearing open face helmets and 4-point harnesses. In addition, the steering wheel/airbag was replaced w/ a Sparco wheel. Passenger side airbag deployed but she ended up submarining under the dash. Driver suffered more serious injuries to the face and possibly a concussion. He knew his name and the fact he was at a race track, but did not know where. In addition, he kept asking what happened. I know the driver was airlifted, but cannot confirm if the passenger was also.

I thought this guy's perspective was interesting:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...7&postcount=61