Dyno Numbers

[Dean]

I don't entirely understand what Nate can and can't control on the ECU, but I think the other thing that Nate's new numbers for my car tell us is that to have maximum performance in Reno, there must be room in the maps, or whatever to allow the ECU to take advantage of the lower air density, at minimum by advancing timing further.

Does that sound right?

I have no idea if the ECU knows anything about altitude, or air density.

Nate, Help... I'm over my head, but for us altitude folks, it is an important issue. We want as much power in Reno, or at 7000+ feet even as possible without blowing up our cars when we go to Sac, or SF for the weekend.

[tysonK]

So if you really want to be Competative IN a (turbo)Stock Class you can store your car at High Altitude and then only bring it down for events and only let it do runs and not drive around..

[Nate@s-s]

Ok,
The car isnt making more power in alititude than at closer to sea level , its that the car will more willingly advance the timing in higher elevations, once you come down in altitude and start pushing the car a bit, the ecu will find that the car is pinging, and reduce the timing till it is no longer present, then slowly advance again till it finds its "happy place" once more. The ecu has HUGE control over the timing, I can modify the base timing map, and where the advance multiplier starts at , but the ecu can still add or pull more timing then it would ever need. ( well, you could if you didnt know what you were doing push the timing map so out of wack that the computer cant come back to a safe point )
There are sensors on your car that will measure atmospheric pressure and help compensate ( most newer cars have this )

And Tyson, that would only work if you trailerd the car to the event , and by the time you were done w 1-2 runs the ecu would be back to normal.

[Nate@s-s]

Originally Posted by sperry

It's not the dyno that was changing between those runs, it was Dean's ECU adapting to conditions.

Idealy for tuning, Nate should be able to reset the ECU, then trick it into advancing the timing as far as possible in one run. Shiv over at Vishnu has a trick for doing it (I posted this in the 100 octane thread already):

That way you can test the tuning changes to the ECU w/o worring about drastic changes due to the ECU's learning ability.

Yes, the ecu was mearly adapting to conditions here, based on this data I am going to double our usual baseline pull's on non dyno days ( from 1 warmup and 3 pulls to warmup and 6 pulls ) For tuning, the trick to speed up the learning process a bit does work very well, I have been doing the same thing for a bit now ( you can achive the same result by putting the car under load w the brakes after a ecu reset or re-flash ) The reason I did not do this when testing today was I was looking for good data on what the ecu was doing to explain the higher than average numbers from the reno cars.

Although it does seem that the higher reading cars were inverse to who was driving fast on the way down, which makes sense based on the data we recieved today.

hope this answers the questions, if you have more just ask!

-Nate

[ryan4601]

ok nate, since i am running the UTEC and have full control over my timing map, how much timing should i be able to run, and if you have any suggestions on what my timing map should look like that would be helpfull also....i am running about 22 advance points on the top end 5000+, and as low as 15 down in the low 3300-4400. just seeing what you think....i can use all the help i can get.
ryan

[MikeK]

Name: Mike K
Car: 2004 WRX
Mods: APS Uppipe, Cobb turboback, samco IC Hoses, Cobb stage 2 reflash
Wheel HP: 230.3 @ 6300 RPM
Wheel Torque: 217.2 @ 4500 RPM
Dyno: Mustang @ Cobb Tuning 9th April 5:25pm

Can anyone convert between cobb dyno numbers and ssquared dyno numbers? Here is my attempt:

My stock dyno numbers that morning were:

Hp: 186.3 @ 5900
Tq: 182.2 @ 4100

Basically I gained 19.2% tq, 23.6% hp. The dyno at SSquared reads about 150 for a normal stock WRX, right? So that would mean that I am at 150 * 1.236 = 185 Hp. When is the next dyno day?

Scott, what are your numbers after ESX?

[MattR]

Wow! Nice gains. It looks as if Cobb's dyno reads slightly higher than S-Squared, but still excellent performance gains.

[tysonK]

I think you can go down there anytime for pulls on the DYno for $60, but don't use the quote button on that.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by MikeK

Can anyone convert between cobb dyno numbers and ssquared dyno numbers? Here is my attempt:

My stock dyno numbers that morning were:

Hp: 186.3 @ 5900
Tq: 182.2 @ 4100

Well, my basically stock car evened out at about 160, and assuming your numbers are stable, that puts the Cobb dyno about 15% higher than the S-Squared

[ArthurS]

Great numbers man! :shock:

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

Well, my basically stock car evened out at about 160, and assuming your numbers are stable, that puts the Cobb dyno about 15% higher than the S-Squared

Don't forget that Cobb is up at altitude, so there could be an issue with their conversion for lack of oxygen.

As far as my Dyno numbers at ESX, I still need to get them to send me a printout of the runs. According to the tuner there I pulled 197hp at the wheels, and like 380 torque! :shock: Of course I don't believe that torque number... it must be a different method of calculating it, and I wouldn't compare it to the other torque numbers we've been talking about. I'd guess the car's got around 200 to 210 ftlbs of torque from the way it drives.

Of course, there's the whole ESX vs. S-Squared dyno issue. Nate seemed to think that ESX's dyno reads lower than their Mustang Dyno. He gave an example that my car that pulled 186hp on the S2 dyno would probably pull a 160-170hp at ESX... so with that logic, I'd guess my car's in the 210-220awhp range on Nate's dyno... which is right at about stock STi range.

[MikeSTI]

we just need a 1/4 mile track

that would clear everything up

[Dean]

Originally Posted by sperry

Don't forget that Cobb is up at altitude, so there could be an issue with their conversion for lack of oxygen.

The weather stations should take that into account.

Originally Posted by sperry

As far as my Dyno numbers at ESX, I still need to get them to send me a printout of the runs. According to the tuner there I pulled 197hp at the wheels, and like 380 torque! :shock: Of course I don't believe that torque number... it must be a different method of calculating it, and I wouldn't compare it to the other torque numbers we've been talking about.

This is why we are posting the Dyno information, so we know when, where and on what it was done. Did they do a baseline before you started. That would be a great way to compare ESX to S-Squared.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

Did they do a baseline before you started. That would be a great way to compare ESX to S-Squared.

My baseline pulls would be useless because they were done with the UniChip removed and new parts installed. I didn't get any dyno time until they were ready to tune it after my parts install.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by sperry

My baseline pulls would be useless because they were done with the UniChip removed and new parts installed. I didn't get any dyno time until they were ready to tune it after my parts install.

Crap. Oh well. Just have to go back down to S-Squared I guess. When's the next Dyno Day?

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Dean

Crap. Oh well. Just have to go back down to S-Squared I guess. When's the next Dyno Day?

That's what I'm talking about... I wouldn't mind getting a few pulls over there again to compare to my UniChip pulls.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by sperry

According to the tuner there I pulled 197hp at the wheels, and like 380 torque!

That's quite a torque monster you've got there from that little 2.0L motor.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

That's quite a torque monster you've got there from that little 2.0L motor.

Actually, the more I drive it the more I'm amazed at the tuning. It really pulls nice and smoothly in every gear. Lot's more power down low than before. I know it's not 380 tq... but it does feel very nice!

I'm thinking the 380 ftlbs at the wheels is some number uncompensated for the car's gear ratio or something... I'm not totally sure how it works.

[doubleurx]

233 whp
220 #'

On vishnu's dyno - dyno dynamics I think??

Vishnu Stage 2 on our incredibly crappy 91 Oct gas.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by doubleurx

233 whp
220 #'

On vishnu's dyno - dyno dynamics I think??

Vishnu Stage 2 on our incredibly crappy 91 Oct gas.

What's your exact setup? That's a bit low for a VS2.

[doubleurx]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

What's your exact setup? That's a bit low for a VS2.

Vishnu's dyno is conservative. 233 whp on their dyno is the same as 275 whp on a dynapack. They usually get around 240 with a stage 2 on 91 oct. & 250 whp on 93. My car was just having a bad day or a bad tank of gas. When it pulled 240, it knocked too much for my liking, so we de-tuned to eliminate the dreaded knocking. My set-up is the following:

03 sedan
Vishnu signature series turbo back, vf34, sti injectors, walbro pump, Vishnu stage 2 remap, vishnu intercooler hoses and power pulley, apexi type V-N coilovers, Stoptech 12.9" big brake kit, cusco 22mm rear bar, kart boy ss and links, helix solid end links, 17x8 Rota Torques w/ falken azensis st-115 235/40/17. (ouch $$$$)

[Dean]

If you'd like your info listed, please submit it in the format from the first post.

Thanks

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by doubleurx

Vishnu's dyno is conservative. 233 whp on their dyno is the same as 275 whp on a dynapack. They usually get around 240 with a stage 2 on 91 oct. & 250 whp on 93. My car was just having a bad day or a bad tank of gas. When it pulled 240, it knocked too much for my liking, so we de-tuned to eliminate the dreaded knocking. My set-up is the following:

03 sedan
Vishnu signature series turbo back, vf34, sti injectors, walbro pump, Vishnu stage 2 remap, vishnu intercooler hoses and power pulley, apexi type V-N coilovers, Stoptech 12.9" big brake kit, cusco 22mm rear bar, kart boy ss and links, helix solid end links, 17x8 Rota Torques w/ falken azensis st-115 235/40/17. (ouch $$$$)

I used to work for Vishnu, so I am well aware of the conservative nature of the DynoDynamics unit. It's not unusual for ~5 hp fluctuations on the very top end to happen, but your peak torque seems a bit low too. I was just curious. Nothing wrong with nice conservative tunes.

[doubleurx]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

I used to work for Vishnu, so I am well aware of the conservative nature of the DynoDynamics unit. It's not unusual for ~5 hp fluctuations on the very top end to happen, but your peak torque seems a bit low too. I was just curious. Nothing wrong with nice conservative tunes.

Damn, I thought my car was fast....O'well,how can I get more power. Do you think it might be the Tahoe gas, air filter? Do I need a bigger intercooler? What do you think?

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by doubleurx

O'well,how can I get more power.