Ladys and gentlemen, Your new pope!

[sperry]

Originally Posted by NevadaSTi

Its good to ask questions, its how you get answers.

I think Khail's point was that in a religious discussion, referencing the Bible as a way to prove a point isn't logically sound because both sides of the argument haven't agreed that it's fact.

You can't say "God exists because the Bible says so", followed by "the Bible is fact because it's the Word of God". The big problem w/ the Bible is that it's a single source of information. That's why ancillary evidence that corroborates the Bible is so important... things like the Dead Sea Scrolls and other historical documents from 2000 years ago that haven't been constantly rewritten and retranslated over the years.

Edit: this reply made more sense before NevadaSTi edited his post while I was replying.

[MikeSTI]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

From what I have gathered in our forum discussions here, the biggest single difference between your religious beliefs and mine, is that I Am Okay With Other People Not Believing What I Do. I don't harbor any deep desire to convert other people to my way of thinking. If they believe something else, fine, so be it - whatever floats their boat. You'd do well to learn from that; it's much easier for two people to have a calm, rational religious discussion when they don't feel like the other person is constantly thinking about what a poor, sad, non-believer soul they are and trying to convince them of "The Way".

O.K. this is where we must be going wrong then.

I Am Okay With Other People Not Believing What I Do. I live with them everyday and seem to manage pretty good. However we are talking about something that I do hold in my heart and would love to share with people I care about because it does have a purpose. I'm not trying to sell you anything. Hell I'm trying to give you what I have. Why is this a bad thing? I'm not trying to change the way you think if anything I'm trying to get the way you think to think bigger.

I say its a way of living! If you live with good morals; what holds you back. It seems to me that you just want to get by and let others make the rules based on what people want? Eve wanted the forbidin fruit and look where that landed us. By letting others change things that in the end will have a bad repercutions.

You can think what ever you want, but if your opion is that God doesnt exist then of course I can't just say ok I feel the same way? and I'm fine with that? I don't feel that way and I guess when you have faith you want to share it............. I'm sorry. God Bless

[NevadaSTi]

Originally Posted by sperry

I think Khail's point was that in a religious discussion, referencing the Bible as a way to prove a point isn't logically sound because both sides of the argument haven't agreed that it's fact.

You can't say "God exists because the Bible says so", followed by "the Bible is fact because it's the Word of God". The big problem w/ the Bible is that it's a single source of information. That's why ancillary evidence that corroborates the Bible is so important... things like the Dead Sea Scrolls and other historical documents from 2000 years ago that haven't been constantly rewritten and retranslated over the years.

Edit: this reply made more sense before NevadaSTi edited his post while I was replying.

Sorry Sperry,

I posted it and then read what I wrote. I wasn't impressed with the way it sounded. I have to admit, I am not the best writer. Sometimes my point can be a little too pointed. So, thats why I edited it. I don't know you all well enough to be preaching to the choir.

Oh yeah, a little background on me. My Father was a preacher as I was growing up, and Ill leave it at that.

One thing I will agree to, religion sure does bring up some intellegent and sometimes emotional conversations.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by NevadaSTi

One thing I will agree to, religion sure does bring up some intellegent and sometimes emotional conversations.

It's been my experience it is usually only one or the other. That's why I stay out of them now except with a very small number of people I know very well.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by NevadaSTi

Sorry Sperry,

I posted it and then read what I wrote. I wasn't impressed with the way it sounded. I have to admit, I am not the best writer. Sometimes my point can be a little too pointed. So, thats why I edited it. I don't know you all well enough to be preaching to the choir.

Oh yeah, a little background on me. My Father was a preacher as I was growing up, and Ill leave it at that.

One thing I will agree to, religion sure does bring up some intellegent and sometimes emotional conversations.

Actually, I've got no problems w/ pointed or emotional posts. Just as long as no one's personally attacking each other.

Religion certainly is a tough subject to debate, mostly because religions beliefs tend to be fundamentals that we've held for entire lives. It can be hard to listen to someone that's disagreeing w/ something that you hold to be a fundamental truth of the universe.

The thing to keep in mind is that we're all making a best attempt to be fair in the discussion, and play by the rules of intelligent argumentation. Which means staying away from personal attacks.

Also, what happens in a religions/political thread, stays in said thread. The last thing I'd like is for people to screw up friendships because of some crap posted on the internet.

[Nick Koan]

Yeah, I don't expect to lose any friends over this discussion and I hope everyone feels the same.

[MikeSTI]

It's been my experience it is usually only one or the other. That's why I stay out of them now except with a very small number of people I know very well.

and thats what scares me the most.........when people do become affaid to speak for the Lord.

who knows maybe one day this whole world will have no religion and we can rejoice because then revolations will never come too be and we can build spaceships and destroy other plants for there resorces.

Kevin - sorry!! I'm not trying to drag you in here just quoted you

[MikeSTI]

Originally Posted by nKoan

Yeah, I don't expect to lose any friends over this discussion and I hope everyone feels the same.

I feel the same. I'm not trying to attack anyone, just share my thoughts and while they can seem emotional its only because the way things are said. I felt complacent not to speak up!

I will always Love you guys no matter what is said

[NevadaSTi]

I felt that my second post in this thread was an attach on personal beliefs. However, it wasn't against anyone in particular. It was kind of a blanket statement. I took a logic class in College. I know the rules of engagement, and I felt I had violated one. A personal attack is what they call a falisy. You base your argument on a falisy, then your argument is false.

I also believe that religion is a personal private thing. There is a verse in the bible that deals directly with people who preach in the open. Like on city sidewalks. The same verse also deals with public prayer. Such as praying in Schools or on the sidewalk. I had a very religious friend ask me to help support prayer in school when the People's Republic of Kalifornia was doing away with it. I told him of this verse, and it made him mad. I told him that I pray whenever and wherever I want to. But I do it in private.

[bruspeed]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

It's been my experience it is usually only one or the other. That's why I stay out of them now except with a very small number of people I know very well.

Seconded. I originally wrote this post to keep those who wanted to be informed, informed, and to help my post count!!

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

and thats what scares me the most.........when people do become affaid to speak for the Lord.

who knows maybe one day this whole world will have no religion and we can rejoice because then revolations will never come too be and we can build spaceships and destroy other plants for there resorces.

Kevin - sorry!! I'm not trying to drag you in here just quoted you

Mike, I'm refraining from not speaking for God. If he needs me to discuss my beliefs about "God" as I see it, he's in big trouble. I'm more concerned about the potential effects such discussions have between mere mortals such as us. Like I said, with the exception of a very small handful of individuals, I just keep things to myself.

[AtomicLabMonkey]

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

It seems to me that you just want to get by and let others make the rules based on what people want?

I never said that. We haven't even been talking about the way people live their lives, just their beliefs. Two separate issues.

Originally Posted by MikeSTI

You can think what ever you want, but if your opion is that God doesnt exist then of course I can't just say ok I feel the same way? and I'm fine with that?

I wouldn't expect you to say "ok I feel the same way", because you don't. It's the "and I'm fine with that" part that goes a long way towards keeping people on friendly terms.

Oh, and I never said I was an atheist either.

[khail19]

Originally Posted by AtomicLabMonkey

Oh, and I never said I was an atheist either.

I didn't say it either! Oh wait, I am an atheist.