Brake recommendations

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Joeyy

I looked back and found a modification thread. Dean was listing everyones modifications. With his red WRX he had in STX, he listed a STX legal map. I checked with COBB and they have a STX legal map. I'll have to get a turbo back to run the map but then on to the brakes.

I think the rest of my wagon is STX legal exept for my current ECU map. So now I should be able to look into some bigger rotors and better calipers and run in SP with a ST prepared car.

On the only bad note, a bigger rotor may not fit my current wheel. Dean had to give them up do to brake size. Time to open up the check book again.

Don't forget: bigger brakes at autocross will make you slower. It's not like the stock WRX brakes fade at autocross speeds if you've got the proper pads on 'em. The additional rotational initeria of the larger rotors and wheel means less acceleration.

Plus, you'll be losing massive amounts of torque with the STX map. IMO, a properly built ESP WRX will mop up a properly built STX WRX. Not to mention a properly build ESP WRX will have a 2.5L motor, which isn't even legal in STX (the 2.5L WRX is in STU w/ the STi).

[Joeyy]

Originally Posted by sperry

Don't forget: bigger brakes at autocross will make you slower. It's not like the stock WRX brakes fade at autocross speeds if you've got the proper pads on 'em. The additional rotational initeria of the larger rotors and wheel means less acceleration.

Plus, you'll be losing massive amounts of torque with the STX map. IMO, a properly built ESP WRX will mop up a properly built STX WRX. Not to mention a properly build ESP WRX will have a 2.5L motor, which isn't even legal in STX (the 2.5L WRX is in STU w/ the STi).

About the brakes. What is your opinion for the track. I'm thinking about the time trials next year. Will the brake line, blue fluid and pads upgrade be adequate for the track?

So if the 06 WRX is in STU opposed to STX. Will it be in BSP or ASP up from ESP?

One last thing. Do you think removing my roof rails will be legal under STX rules? I believe it is legal under SP. I know this is lazy and I should look it up but while I'm on the point I'll ask it anyway. I know I have to do some work, now that Nik finally changed his ECU. And the brake fade I'm getting on the 5th and 6th runs at the events is not cool and would "kill" me at the track.

[Kevin M]

If you're gonna run ESP, stick to ESP rules. The car will be faster that way anyway.

[sperry]

Originally Posted by Joeyy

About the brakes. What is your opinion for the track. I'm thinking about the time trials next year. Will the brake line, blue fluid and pads upgrade be adequate for the track?

So if the 06 WRX is in STU opposed to STX. Will it be in BSP or ASP up from ESP?

One last thing. Do you think removing my roof rails will be legal under STX rules? I believe it is legal under SP. I know this is lazy and I should look it up but while I'm on the point I'll ask it anyway. I know I have to do some work, now that Nik finally changed his ECU. And the brake fade I'm getting on the 5th and 6th runs at the events is not cool and would "kill" me at the track.

Stock brakes can be made to work at the track with the proper pads & fluid, and the understanding that you will be swapping rotors much more frequently, and wearing on the front wheel bearings. However, something like a set of StopTechs will work *much* better at track speeds, especially at places like RFR that are high speed and really heat the brakes.

STX / STU classifications are based on displacement. 2.5L Turbo is too large for STX, putting the '06+ WRX in STU. SP classifications are based on models, and the '06 WRX is considered to be the "same" as the earlier WRX's, so they stay in ESP.

Of course, all this may change before next season... or during the season for that matter.

I have no idea about the roof rails. You'll have to look it up. And you shouldn't be fading your stock brakes at autocross... you should look into better pads.

[A1337STI]

I'm thinking of buying a set of EBC Yellow pads , as i'm due for some new brake pads. Although I'm also thinking of buying a set of EBC Greens to use for winter driving and swapping out the pads when the weather warms up/ and for track use.

Cold initial bite is important to me in winter. I even dislike the stock pads in winter due to a noticeable loss of Initial bite. it was 33 this morning and with no one behind me i did a bit of a cold pad brake test, then rode the brakes for a minute and retested and Wow, big time difference in bite. (tested doing a 27 to 0 )

Not sure how much i should believe EBC's chart : http://www.ebcbrakes.com/trackday&race.html

they say the Green and Yellow have 'excellent' cold bite, and the reds have 'good plus' and the blue's have medium. IF that's correct then maybe i should just get yellows.

Also if i was to go with a pad with a not so great initial cold bite, and just rode my brakes briefly every time they are cold. is that going to significantly reduce the life of the pads ? (I'm guessing yes , but i don't know)
I just really hate the feel of the stock pads when cold, and my commute to work is short and my brakes stay cold unless i ride them or make some stops just to warm them up.

[sperry]

Yellows suck in the cold. Period. I don't care what the chart says.

Dragging your brakes to heat them up is great and all (if you don't care about the rotor wear), but let's say you're on the freeway for 15 minutes w/o braking... now the pads are cold again. What happens when you have to emergency brake? Well, you have to do it on cold pads. Sure they heat up quick in that situation, but that's an extra 10 or 20 feet added to your stopping distance.

Frankly, on a car like the STI where the pads are so easy to swap, there's no reason why you shouldn't run a good street/autocross pad (yes they are the same thing, autocross doesn't generate that much braking heat) on the street, and a good high-temp race pad on the track.

[cody]

Dean told me that greens have better cold bite than R4-S's and other than a bit of poor initial bite on the coldest of mornings (10*F), I had no issues with the R4-S's last winter (parking outside). That's all I got.

[Kevin M]

ALL pads are going to suck when it' 3 degrees F outside. That's because pads that wouldn't suck at that temp are going to fade far too easily, especially on a car liek the STi.

Alex, what did you use last winter? Did it suck so bad you need to replace it?

[cody]

He used stock pads last winter. He didn't like their cold bite.

[A1337STI]

oh wow they can cool down that quickly? That's exactly what I'm afraid of Sperry, heat my brakes up leaving sierra, but then 20 minutes back into town, and some stupid tourist steps out in front of your car on a snow covered road , giving you about 4 car lengths to stop from 35 mph ! Every 5 feet is helpful .

Had that happen last year and came with in 1/2 car length of hitting the guy. (and with in 1/4 of a car length of soiling my draws) then i gave him an earful about stepping out in front of traffic on snowy roads.

Ordering EBC Greens today I'll order some yellows before my next track day (Maybe Thunder hill again in a month or two)

Great perfect info thanks 2 all

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by cody

He used stock pads last winter. He didn't like their cold bite.

Yes, and we went through this discussion then... I thought he replaced them with something that sucked less.

[Dean]

Short of the new EBC "Rainbow and white" gummi bear and marshmallow compound, all pads will suck on first use in the cold.

Cold metal, ceramic, etc. gets condensation on it pretty universally and anything that would work at those temperatures is going to have a good chance of falling apart at even normal street operating temperatures.

Think about it, you big sticky rubber summer tires also suck when cold, do you really believe there is a magical compound for brakes that can do better?

It's winter, slow down, think ahead, and drive carefully.

This has been a public service message brought to you by the number 4, the letter F and the color red.

[cody]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Yes, and we went through this discussion then... I thought he replaced them with something that sucked less.

negatory

[NevadaSTi]

Originally Posted by A1337STI

then i gave him an earful about stepping out in front of traffic on snowy roads

Is he preaching again? Sorry Alex, I had too. You know what guys, I like my set of axxiss ultimates.

[Joeyy]

The Hawk HP plus says it's good for autocross and track. Can you get a Hawk pad that is more for autocross?

[cody]

Isn't the less agressive one just called the Hawk HP? As Sperry said most street pads make perfectly good AutoX pads.

[Kevin M]

HPS is street/autocross. The HP+ is more aggressive. It's a light-duty track pad. It's what I had in the Miata. It needs a bit of heat to work properly. If you need track pads, get the HP+, but if you're separating your track and autocross pads, get HPS for autocross. They have better cold bite.

[Dean]

On the Miata, I would agree, but anything with the weight of a Subaru wher braking is actually required, will do better with the Pluses IMHO.

The other choice is a set of EBC greens. Probably the best bang for your buck in an autocross, street, light track pad.

I am ecstatic about the EBC Yellows I put in yesterday. Amazingly good cold, and according to Matt do well at the track, and cheap. Careful though. These may have way to much initial bite for limited traction conditions such as snow/ice.

[MattR]

Originally Posted by Dean

These may have way to much initial bite for limited traction conditions such as snow/ice.

They do until you light them on fire at Solo in Lovelock then the initial bite is a little less.

I wouldn't drive the yellows in the super cold unless you have a way to get some good heat into them. Not an ideal winter street pad at all.

Sofar, the yellows seem to do everything good. Not the best or worst in any one area, but I have street driven them with decent results, they work okay at autocross, they hold up really well after serious track abuse, then I heated them up to 1600 degrees and they didn't melt. Also, they are cheap as hell.

I took them out, and am now running the Porterfield R4-s, which, IMO, is the nicest feeling street/ Auto-x pad so far. I will be using these at auto x next season, but will switch to a dedicated track pad for track use. they are too pricey to burn up at the track.

[cody]

I just got another front set of R4-S's for $89 shipped by mentioning this thread when I placed my order. But yah, if I had an STi, they would have been $200.

[Kevin M]

The one nice thing about my dinky L brakes is that pads are cheap. R4-S will be $79 shipped for fronts.

[A1337STI]

Did you get an other Car , again ? 97 outback sport Niiiiicccce!! I hope you RallyX that bitch at least once

If you had both yellows and greens would you use yellows for summer / autox ? or greens for everything but track ?

[Kevin M]

I'll rallycross it when T-Hill holds some that aren't conflicting with our autocrosses, which is going to be rare.

Yellows are track pads, you'll wear them out fast driving on the street (or your rotors). Greens are streetable, but not trackworthy whatsoever in an STi.

[JonnydaJibba]

I really like my Axxix Ulti's. Gotta smokin deal on em too, thanks Kev.

[A1337STI]

I bought a set of EBC Greens, turned my rotors and put them on last weekend .
Found out my front rotors are warped (story for a different thread)

When i was leaving to drive down to the airport to head out to Atlanta (business trip out of the blue) it was snowing lightly, with snow down and about 25F out. Night and day compared to stock brembo pads in terms of cold bite. WOW. the first application of the brakes drove up to about 22 mph checked for cars behind me and then pushed the pedal down maybe 60%. and i stopped. which is very much different then when i've done the exact same test on stock brembos at 32F. (i stopped then to but i can feel a differance between using the brembos at 60F and 32F) where as the EBC Greens appear to have almost the same stopping power at 25F as they do @ 60F

I went for a little drive around town a few nights ago and it was 15F out, and they still have amazing cold bite compared with stock brembo pads. (talking about the First time i use the brakes) I even had some snow / ice on the rims and visible ice on the rotors themselves.

Perfect recommendation for me !!! Thanks to all for the awesome advice!!