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[sperry]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

Okay, I guess I'm missing something.

As I understand it, a handicap system is intended to level the playing field for two competitiors who are at different skill levels. The one who played better relative to his or her usual level of play is the winner, not the one who was better on the absolute scale for the game in question. So I don't see how a system like that works for autocorss, when the whole idea of classing and PAX is to isolate the skill of each competitor so that other factors (budget, car choice, level of mods, etc.) aren't what solely determine the winner. I think "position relative to others" is not relevant to the arguments related to street tires. If you beat me by an average of 20 PAX spots this season, and the next event you only beat me by 5, does that mean I drove better than you, or does it mean you beat me by a smaller margin? I don't think improving relative to you should be a basis for awarding me a victory if you're still better than me by any objective/absolute scale of scoring. Or I could still be missing what you and Dean are actually trying to explain.

You're missing it.

It's like victory weight in Speed World Challenge: If I win, I get 50 lbs on the car for the next race. If I win again, I get another 50 lbs. Every time I do good, it gets harder for me to win next time. If I don't do good, then they take weight off the car.

So, if you're in a class killer car in autocross, once you win a few events, you've got an X second "handicap" (not really the best term) making it harder for you to continue winning, or more accurately, making it easier for the rest of the field to catch you. The idea is the field is self leveling over the course of a season, so things like class killer cars, street tire PAX inequalities, etc are automatically self-corrected.

The problem is that driver ability will also get "self-corrected" by this method. i.e. A driver that would beat everyone up in a single car challenge will have their driving ability handicapped away as well. That's why this sort of handicapping is popular in road racing because when done right you end up with a field of cars that are all about the same speed, so you get close racing which attracts sponsors. That's not the issue in autocross. We're not looking for a bunch of people to have identical lap times, we're looking to eliminate unfairness due to rules... victory weight is exactly the opposite of that... it's intentional unfairness via rules.

[Kevin M]

Originally Posted by sperry

You're missing it.

It's like victory weight in Speed World Challenge: If I win, I get 50 lbs on the car for the next race. If I win again, I get another 50 lbs. Every time I do good, it gets harder for me to win next time. If I don't do good, then they take weight off the car.

So, if you're in a class killer car in autocross, once you win a few events, you've got an X second "handicap" (not really the best term) making it harder for you to continue winning, or more accurately, making it easier for the rest of the field to catch you. The idea is the field is self leveling over the course of a season, so things like class killer cars, street tire PAX inequalities, etc are automatically self-corrected.

The problem is that driver ability will also get "self-corrected" by this method. i.e. A driver that would beat everyone up in a single car challenge will have their driving ability handicapped away as well. That's why this sort of handicapping is popular in road racing because when done right you end up with a field of cars that are all about the same speed, so you get close racing which attracts sponsors. That's not the issue in autocross. We're not looking for a bunch of people to have identical lap times, we're looking to eliminate unfairness due to rules... victory weight is exactly the opposite of that... it's intentional unfairness via rules.

So I did get it, because I think it's not something that's applicable to autocross. We want the better driver on any given day to win, regardless of his car and equipment, right? Not parity.

[Dean]

Originally Posted by BAN SUVS

So I did get it, because I think it's not something that's applicable to autocross. We want the better driver on any given day to win, regardless of his car and equipment, right? Not parity.

These are season points, they don't change the results of an individual event per se.

I see what you are saying, but like a 200 bowling league, the handicap only gets you so far. You don't handicap based on a perfect game, or in this case the fastest time.

Like I said, I don't have the exact answer, but considering what we are doing for the R tire folks, this is the time to try.